Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?
Featuring TheRunZone?s resident coach Tinman. All participants are welcome to post and reply to topics in this section whether you?re looking for advice, or sharing your own coaching experience.

10 posts   •   Page 1 of 1
Gull
 

Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Gull » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:12 pm

Are there any guideline of what heart rate I should be running at when doing:

CV intervals (1000m-1500m)
Tempo (40 minutes medium hard)

In percent of HF max?

Tinman
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 am

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Tinman » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:27 pm

Gull,

Tempo Running Numbers: 84% for long, easy tempos and 88% for shorter, harder tempos. Average is about 86% of HR max for most tempos. But, it takes a few minutes for your heart rate to reach that level. Your pace will be slower and your HR lower, when you first start a tempo. When your body temperature rises, you'll run faster with the same effort and your HR will rise a bit.

CV Numbers:  90% is the low end, when your body temperature is not that high and it's early in the workout. But, after 18-22 minutes of total CV running you'll be near 94% of HR max. Most of the workout you should be near 92% of HR max

Remember, HR max varies from day to day and it even varies during the day. Your max will be lower in the morning by 5-10 beats. Your max will probably be at it's peak height around 5pm.

When your body is low on sugar (glucose or glycogen), your HR max will be lower.

When your body is hormally depleted (epinephrine) from exhaustion, your HR max will be lower. I've seen it 10-12 beats lower than normal when a person is spent from emotional and physical exhaustion.

All in all, you want your HR to respond normally, and your effort and HR should relate well. If your effort and HR do not align well, you need rest (your heart rate will be lower than normal) or you need fluids (your heart rate will be much higher than normal).

IF it's hot outside, you'll have to use a higher HR when you train.

If it's cold outside, you'll have to use a lower HR when you train.

Take care,

Tinman
Tinman
(coaching available)
Inquire via email:
runfastcoach@gmail.com

Gull
 

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Gull » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:32 am

Thanks that`s a great answer.
But how do you estimate the training zones (HF)?
I have seen someone use Karvonens formula that also uses your resting HR into the calculation.
The standard method: HRMax x % and the Karvonen method: HRR x % + HRest where HRR stands for your Heart Rate Reserve and HRest your Resting Heart Rate.

http://www.ottawarun.com/heartrate.htm

Tinman
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 am

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Tinman » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:00 am

If you are healthy and have a medical doctors approval, do a 1-mile or 1500m run at full effort to determine your heart-rate maximum.  Note your heart rate as you near the finish and in the few seconds after finishing. Otherwise, using formulas is just guessing, and you could be way-off target.
Tinman
(coaching available)
Inquire via email:
runfastcoach@gmail.com

Gull
 

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Gull » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:12 am

I think u misunderstand. I know my HF max. But there are 2 ways to calculate the zones. Standard or with Karvonens formula. Which should I use?

RunningTy
 

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by RunningTy » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:04 pm

Tinman has previously written this about the Karvonen method:

There's a lot of difference between HRR and strict percent of max. 

Example:

HR max = 187 bts/min.
HR resting = 60 (for instance)

64% HRR (heart rate reserve) = 141.28 beats per minute

75.55% of HR max (strict percentage) = 141.28.

So, do you see the difference now?

By the way, 72-78% of HR max is the ideal range (60-67% of HRR - heart rate reserve), in my opinion.  I use strict percentages because it works better.


http://www.therunzone.com//viewtopic.php?t=0

Another very useful advice he has repeated is to get your HR from your speed and not the other way round.  Run the given pace on a track or flat road, note the HR and/or perceived effort, and use that for later similar runs.

Ninetonite
 

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Ninetonite » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:12 am

Gull,
Go by feel on your tempos.  As Tinman says, your HR Max varies and you have no way of knowing on any given workout what it will be.  But your body knows when you are running a tempo too fast cause you get out of breath rather quickly.  And...there is a bit of wiggle room on those tempos anyway. If you run one a little too fast or a little too slow on any given day you will still be getting in a solid workout.  You seem to be obsessed with precision in your training...just get out and make it happen! 

My shorter tempos (5km) vary greatly depending on a number of factors (level of fatigue at start of run, trail vs. road/track, indoors vs. outdoors, temperature etc etc) but they all FEEL the same which is all that matters.

(BTW a lot of very successful old timers used to run tempos even before they were called tempos...back in the day we all ran by effort...either "comfortably hard" for longer tempos or "uncomfortably hard" for the shorter once, under 4miles.  And folks did a lot of 1km or mile reps @ 10km pace, a close proxy for Tinman's CV workouts.  And we raced often, but not all-out, i.e. a tempo run).

Tinman
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 am

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Tinman » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:28 pm

I use HR max, not the Karvonen formula.
Tinman
(coaching available)
Inquire via email:
runfastcoach@gmail.com

Mr.Jensen
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:58 am

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by Mr.Jensen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:58 am

Is it ever sound to adjust your training paces according to HR?

What I mean is, say you for 3 weeks in a row on averages 82% in stead of 86% (that's actually 8-10 bpm) when running tempo (even in very windy conditions) could be a sign that I'm in better shape then I think?
Also my last CV sessions only brought me to 90% for the last interval (at 19:30 min - 23:00 min), when I apparently should be closer to 94% after 20 min.

Next race is a month away, so I could just stick to the Tempo and CV paces I'm currently doing? But I feel 100% sure that my HR is not lower due to over training, because I'm being conservative and feel stronger almost every day.

Another option I guess would be to change the CV section this week and do a 3K time trial to try and asses my current level?

dkggpeters
Hero Member
Hero Member
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:11 pm

Re: Heart rate on tempos and CV intervals?

by dkggpeters » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:08 pm

Mr.Jensen wrote:Is it ever sound to adjust your training paces according to HR?

What I mean is, say you for 3 weeks in a row on averages 82% in stead of 86% (that's actually 8-10 bpm) when running tempo (even in very windy conditions) could be a sign that I'm in better shape then I think?
Also my last CV sessions only brought me to 90% for the last interval (at 19:30 min - 23:00 min), when I apparently should be closer to 94% after 20 min.

Next race is a month away, so I could just stick to the Tempo and CV paces I'm currently doing? But I feel 100% sure that my HR is not lower due to over training, because I'm being conservative and feel stronger almost every day.

Another option I guess would be to change the CV section this week and do a 3K time trial to try and asses my current level?


If the last session and the next session feels easy then you can consider lowering the paces. I wouldn't do it off of one session as it could have been just a really good day. Also, your HR may be lower due to multiple causes. Your perceived effort needs to match the lower HR.

Don't lower the paces that much though. What you don't want to do is then start tricking yourself into they are feeling easy each week and you keep upping the pace and then all of a sudden you drop off a cliff. My experience to to error on the side of caution. Don't rush the process.

10 posts   •   Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests

It is currently Wed May 23, 2018 12:25 pm