Marathon - New to Tinman - Big workout ideas
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James_olliffe
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Marathon - New to Tinman - Big workout ideas

by James_olliffe » Thu May 02, 2019 7:12 am

I am about to embark on another stint of marathon training, this will be my third one, prev 2 – 3:44 and 3:11, first one was run off around 30mpw and zero structure. 3:11 was around 45-50mpw and had a bit more structure in that I ran one long run a week ( a few of them had 3-5miles on MP work in them but not many) and did some sort of standard tempo midweek from time to time (30mins max), I was more concerned with getting miles done. I am no stranger to a structured week, outside of marathon training I run a pretty standard plan of 1 x sort of interval session, 1 x tempo session and one longer run, rest of the week filled with shorter easy runs. I currently run around 40mpw on this sort of schedule as a tick over (long runs around 14-15miles) I don’t really favour any distance and like to race various distances so have settled on this as serving all. Current fitness is – 17:15min 5k and 1:19 HM there or thereabouts. I am thinking of aiming for 2:45-2:55 for my autumn marathon.

I am new to the Tinman philosophy, I have been reading and listening to as much as I can and it sounds like the perfect raining fit for me with the training days/times I have available to me and seems a natural progression from what I do/have been doing. I am looking at an 18 week ish stint for my marathon block (have a 2 week holiday in the middle where the mileage will dip but not significantly). I have a few “big workout” ideas that I have picked up from around forums etc but was wondering if anyone could help with a few ideas of “big workouts” that have worked well for them and how to structure them across the 18weeks, eg where to start distance wise for the workouts and where to peak at. I was thinking to begin with start the mid week workout around 12miles and weekend at 18miles and progress them from there. I am concerned about over-training early on in the cycle but want to ensure I am getting the best from myself.

NIch_xc
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Re: Marathon - New to Tinman - Big workout ideas

by NIch_xc » Fri May 03, 2019 2:29 pm

I'm not really qualified to give marathon advice, so I'm just gonna show you a few tinman posts

Tinman,

Thinking about running a Marathon in early June. I am in 17.15 5km shape right now. I would like to run 2.40 in June have run one before in 2.49. Can you advise on the best way to go about this starting training for it straight away?
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I recommend you shoot for an April half-marathon race.

Here's an example week:

Mon - 1 hour Fartlek - 30-45 second pickups at 5k to 3k pace, every 2 minutes (do about 15-20 of those, based on your current ability).

Tue - 1 hour EZ

Wed - 1 Hour, including half marathon paced (HMP) reps. Example, 15 minutes of warm up running, 5-6 x 1 mile at HMP, jog 400 between, then 15 minutes of cool down running, including some short but quick striders.

Thu - 1 hour Slow

Fri - 1 hour EZ

Sat - 1.5, building to 2 hours, inlcuding about 30-40 minutes of Tempo running at approximately 2-mile race-pace plus a minute per mile.

Sun - off or 1 hour Slow (Off only if you are very tired. Otherwise, unless you have religous conflicts, you should run!).
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Once you have run the half-marathon, Start doing two Big Workouts per week - those are the only fast days you should do! ONe of the days run half-marathon paced pickups or reps (about 30-35 minutes worth is good for you!) and the other day (on the weekend) do a long run with marathon pace or Tempo paced pickups or steady states included. I recommend about 45-60 minutes of MP or Tempo running during the longer Big Workout (you should do it the morning, first thing, just like you'd do a marathon race). The other days run about and hour, nice and Slow.

During both Big Workouts, do 3-4 minutes of short but quick striders. If you have a grass hill nearby, run those faster stretches uphill at about 5k-3k race effort.

Take care,

Tinman
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Given full control of scheduling, training and racing, I would include a race every 3 weeks during the 12 weeks leading to a marathon race. Ideally, a 10k, a 15k, a half-marathon, and then a 10k (2 weeks before the big race).

So, it would look like this:

week # Event
------- ------
1 ) 10k (an 8k is fine)

4 ) 15k or 10-mile race

7 ) half-marathon (15k-10-mile race is fine)

10 10k (an 8k is fine)

12 Marathon
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Tinman
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Twice per week do Big Workouts. Start with about 80 minutes for the mid-week workout and 100 minutes for the weekend Big Workout. Add 6-8 minutes every other week to the total of each. The last two weeks don't do anything over 2 hours, though, for the Weekend Big Workout and not over 90 minutes for the mid-week Big Workout. Reduce daily volume by 20-30% over the last 9 days, but don't reduce frequency of training.

Good luck!

Tinman

Sources:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=884&hilit=big+workout&start=15
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=843&p=3445&hilit=+big+workout+#p3445

The first 3 quotes are from the first link and the last one the last link.
The answers he gave were for people around the same current fitness as you.

Good Luck!

James_olliffe
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Re: Marathon - New to Tinman - Big workout ideas

by James_olliffe » Sun May 05, 2019 4:22 am

Thank you. You know I had actually read those threads in my few days trying to hoover up info and had forgotten to bookmark them for workout ideas. I am really excited for this block to start, got a few weeks of races now for fun before things get too serious, hopefully culminating in a 1:18 half to get training off on the right foot.

Biff
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Re: Marathon - New to Tinman - Big workout ideas

by Biff » Fri May 10, 2019 9:31 am

It is interesting that those links are from 10 years ago. Last year Brogan Austin was coached by Tinman to the US national marathon championship at CIM using very little marathon pace work. I wonder if Tinman's philosophy or workouts have changed or if he simply prescribes different types of workouts to runners of different levels (2:40-2:50 is nowhere near 2:11). Maybe it is both.

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Re: Marathon - New to Tinman - Big workout ideas

by jcheng01 » Thu May 23, 2019 8:45 am

I think we are pretty similar in terms of PRs. Since starting doing Tinman workouts in December 2018, I have been racing really well with PRs over 10 miles (1:00:41), half marathon (1:18:36) and marathon (2:51:41). All of these races were on hilly courses. I'm definitely not an expert, but I have learned a lot through others sharing their training on these boards. So this is what I did.

20 week buildup leading to the race. I started with 7 weeks of 5K/10k training. Emphasis was CV to build stamina with an element of speed (started with 5 x 1000 and progressed to 8 x 3 minutes, 4-5 x 20-30 sec hill sprints), and long hill repeats to build vO2 max and leg power (300m and 400m repeats). Raced a 5K in 17:45 (not very fast, but it was 15 degrees and the course was very hilly).

I then shifted to 8 weeks of lactate threshold training. Emphasis was threshold (long intervals, 5 x 1 mile, 3 x 10 min, and 2 x 15 min at 6:00 pace), tempos (6-7 miles over rolling hills at a touch faster than marathon pace), long runs (over 2 hours at a moderate rhythm which started at 7:30 but went down to 7:15 as I got fitter) and a few CV workouts to continue building stamina, but from a different angle. Raced 10 miles in 1:00:41 (6:03 pace), and concluded block with a 1:18:36 half marathon (6:00 pace) 4 weeks later.

For the next 3 weeks, I shifted into a specific block of dense marathon training. In 3 successive weekends, I ran a 21 miler (7:15 pace), 9 easy; 9 M, and then 2 x 6 M (1 easy rest) over rolling hills. During the week, I ran a long tempo run, 5 x 1600 at CV (but the slower range of it at about 12K pace), and 6 x 1000 CV, 5 x 30 sec hills. Only the last workout was a "big workout" because I was on vacation and had enough time to run over 90 minutes.

Tapered over the final 2 weeks, which I needed. I was tired. Legs were sore. 2 weeks out, I did 15 easy. 11 days out, I did 5 x 1 T (6:00 pace), 75 sec rest, 5 x 30 sec hills. 8 days out, resting HR was about 60, 10 BPM higher than baseline. So I skipped a planned M pace workout for 11 miles slow. 5 days out, I did a final workout, 2 M to lock into marathon pace and 5 x 1 min CV for turnover. In final four days, I really cut it back (4, 4 with 4 strides, 3, 2 with 4 strides). I started feeling good late in the taper. I was definitely fresh the morning of the race. Resting HR was 46 BPM.

I finished the season with a 2:51 marathon, 11 minutes better than my old PR in 2014.

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