Suggestions for XC Race weeks

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derekgclemons
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Suggestions for XC Race weeks

Post by derekgclemons » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:41 am

HS Sophomore first on my team, usually peak towards the beginning of the season but have stuck with tempo/threshold/CV and mileage until races started last weekend. Didn't touch race pace or faster except short strides until the first race, but still PR'd.

I really want to win region this year, which is 9 weeks away and trying not to peak too early. Coach wants us to race the first several weeks and not tempo the races (only 1 per week, though).

Races are Saturday, coach has us do workouts on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but I can control my paces so I can turn them into stamina workouts or combo workouts.

Advice for workouts in race weeks both now and as it gets closer to the goal race?

I was thinking of just sticking with stamina workouts or should I do combo workouts or race pace/VO2Max workouts? I want to be careful, so I'd rather err to the side of caution.

SamH
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Re: Suggestions for XC Race weeks

Post by SamH » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:10 am

I would like this too. Our coach has us do a Tuesday Thursday sessions with Saturday races and I would like to know how to adapt these to make them more tinman/stamina based.

wuxcalum
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Re: Suggestions for XC Race weeks

Post by wuxcalum » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:05 am

Hello,

I am a HS coach that is a follower of Tinman style training.

Generally the rule of thumb that I follow is two workouts and a long run each week. If you have two races, then that is two workouts. In other words, two workouts on Tuesday and Thursday followed by a race on Saturday wouldn't really fit into the Tinman philosophy (from my humble understanding). However, if you are stuck running workouts on those days, I might suggest something like below. Since the workouts and meets are closer together, I would suggest lower volume workouts than "normal". A better option is stuck doing two workouts plus a race would be hard on Monday and Wednesday with Thursday and Friday to recover for the meet. As far as v02/race pace work, you can add that in to sharpen up over the last 2-4 weeks of the season. Something like 3-4 CV reps, then 1-2 Vo2 reps would be an example. Never neglect the stamina work late in the season and only use race pace and v02 in smaller doses.

Monday- Normal run
Tuesday- 2-3 miles of tempo , 3x200 at mile effort
Wednesday- Normal run
Thursday-4-5x800 at CV, 4x10 sec hill sprints
Friday-Short Run
Saturday-Race

Below is what I would do with my team
Monday-Long Run
Tuesday-Normal run+wickets
Wednesday-5-6x1000 at CV + 4x200 OR 3-5 mile of tempo + 5x10sec hill sprints
Thursday-Normal Run
Friday-Short Run
Saturday-Race

derekgclemons
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Re: Suggestions for XC Race weeks

Post by derekgclemons » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:49 pm

wuxcalum wrote:Hello,

I am a HS coach that is a follower of Tinman style training.

Generally the rule of thumb that I follow is two workouts and a long run each week. If you have two races, then that is two workouts. In other words, two workouts on Tuesday and Thursday followed by a race on Saturday wouldn't really fit into the Tinman philosophy (from my humble understanding). However, if you are stuck running workouts on those days, I might suggest something like below. Since the workouts and meets are closer together, I would suggest lower volume workouts than "normal". A better option is stuck doing two workouts plus a race would be hard on Monday and Wednesday with Thursday and Friday to recover for the meet. As far as v02/race pace work, you can add that in to sharpen up over the last 2-4 weeks of the season. Something like 3-4 CV reps, then 1-2 Vo2 reps would be an example. Never neglect the stamina work late in the season and only use race pace and v02 in smaller doses.

Monday- Normal run
Tuesday- 2-3 miles of tempo , 3x200 at mile effort
Wednesday- Normal run
Thursday-4-5x800 at CV, 4x10 sec hill sprints
Friday-Short Run
Saturday-Race

Below is what I would do with my team
Monday-Long Run
Tuesday-Normal run+wickets
Wednesday-5-6x1000 at CV + 4x200 OR 3-5 mile of tempo + 5x10sec hill sprints
Thursday-Normal Run
Friday-Short Run
Saturday-Race
Thanks, wuxcalum! What I've been doing so far is running anything k or less at CV and anything longer at threshold, then hitting the last 10 seconds of the last few reps at a faster pace.

When I get within 6 weeks of state, I was going to turn some of them into combos by doing the majority of the volume at CV or threshold and the last couple of reps (if longer, more if shorter) at race or VO2max.

If you don't mind, a couple of other questions:
Do you have any recommendations for turning a race into either a CV/threshold run or a workout?
I was originally going to start hitting faster than CV sparingly at practice inside of 8 weeks of the state race, but reading more on the forum, it seems that Tinman more often says 6 weeks. I was thinking about doing this:

6 and 5 weeks out - 1 combo workout and 1 CV/threshold or tempo
4 and 3 weeks out - 1 VO2max or race pace workout and 1 CV/threshold or tempo
2 weeks out (region, need to quality) - cut back long, cut back overall mileage 10% (I'm on 65mpw), time trial
week of state - cut back long, cut back overall mileage 5%, time trial

cweeks
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Re: Suggestions for XC Race weeks

Post by cweeks » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:47 pm

It's hard because you have to respect your coach and listen to him. Also, he knows you best so might not hurt to listen to him over people posting advice on the runzone. That being said, this seems different than the tinman training method. Also, you need to make sure you're getting a long run. I can't talk for Coach Schwartz, but it seems like a general rule week for a high schooler in September would be as followed.

M: Long Run with 4-10x 10- 20 second strides or 30 second hill repeats adding one each week depending on how you feel. (Also depends where you are in your development as an athlete. To make a cheesy math analogy, you can't do pre-calc before you take basic addition. So strides may or may not be necessary.)

Tuesday: recovery run

Wednesday: CV or LT Run + 20-30 second hill repeats + 10-15 second strides

Thursday: recovery run

Friday: Pre-meet- Run with strides or recovery run with strides

Saturday: Race cool down until you reach normal workout volume or Tinman tempo with hills and flats


If you are racing once every 2 weeks, I don't think Coach Schwartz would give you VO2 or race pace repeats. I don't want to talk for Coach Schwartz though, the dude is a genius.

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