help me plan my season

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ddtspir06
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Re: help me plan my season

Post by ddtspir06 » Thu May 20, 2010 3:15 pm

[quote="Tinman"]
DDT -

Is your goal race a 10-miler? If so, you don't need much, if any, Vo2 max training. Rather, work at plus or minus a little of 10-mile race speed. CV is an all-around stamina developer, which emphasizes/develops type 2a (fast oxidative) fibers/motor units, and that would help you greatly for the 10-mile race, but even running 1-mile reps at 10-mile pace or 4-6 seconds faster is perfect training. Longer tempos, too, at 5-10% slower than 10-mile pace would be perfect training for the 10-mile event.

Tinman
[/quote]

Yeah my goal race is a 10 miler. Its a few month away, so I'm trying to plan out a schedule that would work to "peak" me for that race. I like your ideas of using mile reps at a tad faster than 10-mile pace and the long tempos, the only problem I have is that I worry that if I incorporate these workouts too soon, I might risk having my training being stale. I say this because I heard that you shouldn't do 1 type of training too long because you lose the benefit. Unless, of course, its just easy running. In my schedule under phase 4 my training directly correlates toward this training where I alternate between 2 mile repeats (reasonablely close to 10 mile race pace probably a tiny bit faster) and 2k repeats (pace a bit faster than 10 mile goal pace, probably close to CV pace) for my Q1 days. and for my Q2 days I do long tempo runs close to 10 mile goal pace, albeit the distance is shorter than 10 miles.

But this lingers me to question about how long one can do a certain type of training (be that CV interval or tempos) before that training loses its effect on an individual? I say this because under my new training schedule I do CV pretty much the whole time after base, I just start it more do less volume of it early on and increase it as I go from stage to stage.

Here is my 3rd revision of my training plan. :D

Recovery: 1-2 weeks easy totally on feel

Base: 4 weeks. main workouts will be progression runs and strides

Phase II: 6 weeks.
Q1 2-3 miles @ CV + 1-1.5 mile @ rep pace
Q2  tinman tempo run L (40-50 min), L, M (30-40 min), L, L, S (20-30min), keep this pattern going all season.

Phase III: 4 weeks.
Q1 3-4 miles @ CV + 1-2 mile @ v02 max
Q2.  tinman tempo run L, L, M, L, L, S...etc. + a couple fast stuff at the end 150-300s.

Phase IV: 6 weeks.
Q1 5-6 miles @ CV pace in the form of 2 mile repeats (close to 10k pace) or 2k repeats ( a bit faster than 10k pace)
Q2.  tinman tempo run L, L, M, L, L, S...etc. + a couple fast stuff at the end 150-300s.

Taper: drop 10 miles each week for 2 weeks. (example: normal miles 70, so 60, then 50.)

ddtspir06
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Re: help me plan my season

Post by ddtspir06 » Sun May 30, 2010 11:28 pm

Hey so I saw this post on letsrun and am amazed at how similar ryan hall training plan is to mine. where he starts early with speed and then develop it a bit with harder interval and then finally piece it all together with specifics.



***



Marathoning 101
May 25, 2010

by Terrence Mahon

Running a successful marathon is all about good preparation, whether we’re talking about Ryan Hall or a first-timer. “If you fail to plan then you plan to fail” are words I live by as a coach. It starts with putting a training schedule together that includes all of the necessary ingredients. A steady supply of long runs, a good tempo run every week and a good overall mileage base are the absolutes that you need. Long and short intervals will come into play for the more serious runner looking to improve upon a previous best time. Ultimately it comes down to piecing together these hard runs with some easier recovery days and then figuring out how deep into the well you can go without getting run down or injured along the way.

We have 20 weeks to go to the Bank of America Chicago Marathon. Time to draw up the blueprints and set the stage for Ryan’s training going forward. We are now switching gears from how he trained for the Boston marathon, which consisted of a lot of workouts on undulating terrain, and will now be altered to prepare for a flat, lightning fast course. In order to get Ryan ready to go for his best time we will need to increase his leg turnover and overall speed. The plan is to segment out his training into 3 different phases. Phase 1 will focus on getting him back to his best 5k/10k fitness. This will be a six-week plan that brings in shorter intervals at close to 4:00 mile pace with plenty of rest in between. The volume will be low, but the intensity will be very high. Quality is a must in this phase so we will keep the mileage down from his typical 120-140mile weeks to insure that his legs are fresh and bouncy. Phase 2 will then take that speed and start to add in some longer training. Since this will take place over the summer and the hot weather will not be ideal for a lot of long training we will frame this program out more towards the half marathon distance. The intensity will be a little less than the 5k/10k phase, but will still have plenty of fast intervals. It is just that now they will be a little longer and with a little less rest.

Finally in Phase 3, over the last 8-10 weeks we will get into the specific work necessary to conquer the marathon. The overall goal is to bring the track speed of a 13:00 track runner to the roads of Chicago. Carrying that kind of speed into a great half marathon training block will then allow Ryan to bring in his incredible aerobic fitness to carry him to the final marathon distance. It is now about fine tuning the engine so that we can get in some higher rpm’s and increase his horsepower. Ryan will look to run Chicago at an average speed of 4:44-4:48 per mile. If he can do this then he will be the fastest American to ever run the marathon. This will also set him up to chase down his first World Marathon Majors victory. It starts with a dream, then a belief and finally a plan. Here we go!

el_mariachi

Re: help me plan my season

Post by el_mariachi » Mon May 31, 2010 1:39 am

[quote="ddtspir06"]
In order to get Ryan ready to go for his best time we will need to increase his leg turnover and overall speed. [/quote]

The main difference between a world-class-marathoner and the most of us is that he spent years building a solid aerobic base. Ryan concentrates on leg turnover and overall speed because he´s at a point where adding volume maybe isn´t the best way to improve his performance.

There was a smiliar approach to this marathon training in "running times" written by Greg McMillan, see here: http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=9254&PageNum=&CategoryID=

Martin

ddtspir06
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Re: help me plan my season

Post by ddtspir06 » Mon May 31, 2010 3:23 am

that article is very interesting because i have tired the traditional pyramid scheme many times before and i can safety say that it does not work for me. Using this "new training" approach, I believe can yield great benefits.

thanks for the link! it was very helpful.

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Re: help me plan my season

Post by Tinman » Mon May 31, 2010 4:00 pm

Coach Mahon is saying the same things as me. It's vital to return training emphasis to quality before going back to quantity, prior a marathon. For example, I told Drew Bean a couple weeks ago that his summer will focus on 5k-10k training, but next fall he'll transition to marathon training for the Houston or Phoenix marathon.

An example: I always thought Khalid Khanouchi's coach, his wife, had it right early in his career and wrong late in his career. She emphasized road races of shorter duration (primarily to earn prize money, I believe) for several weeks, and then 16 weeks prior to a goal marathon she'd prescribe marathon specific workouts, while still doing 12 x 1km at about 12-15km race speed. Later in Khalid's career she didn't have him work on shorter races as much, and that cost him valuable time in the marathon. Training must always be balanced - in the short and long-term. Too much distance work or too much speed for too long creates and imbalanced runners, who, quite often, will reach a plateau that seems like glue: it won't let you go.
Tinman
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Re: help me plan my season

Post by ap4305 » Mon May 31, 2010 5:48 pm

Tinman and I had a similar discussion after the 08 Olympics.  In prepation for a long, hot slog in Beijing with an expected winning time of 2:10+, all three US marathoners (Hall, Ritz, Sell) devoted much of their training to heat acclimization, which included much slower paces than their previous marathon builds (due to the hot training conditions).  Hall and Ritz executed a solid game plan and ran decent races.  However, the conditions were pretty good and the race was very quick up front.  Neither had the legs to handle the fast rhythm, which they otherwise would handle easily.  Afterward, all three wished they had included more they type of balanced training that had made them great runners in the first place. 

Sell's best days were probably over anyway due to age.  Interestingly though, Ritz headed back to the track and we all know how he capitalized on his marathon robustness.  However, Hall has stayed predominantly a marathoner and has never recaptured the form that we saw during his Houston record, during his first London, or during Trials.  I am not privy to his exact training plans, but he was also doing races like Boulder Boulder and Peachtree during this period  (both 10ks).  Additionally, he wasn't too far removed from his high school and college training.  As great a marathoner as he has been, it is easy to forget that he was one of the best high school milers in history.  It is also interesting that Hall has been noticeably absent from the track and road race scene, although Deena (under the same coaching regime) never strayed too far from shorter distance competitions.

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