What if you "Just Run, Baby?"

Featuring TheRunZone?s resident coach Tinman. All participants are welcome to post and reply to topics in this section whether you?re looking for advice, or sharing your own coaching experience.

Moderators: Moderator, Global Moderator

Post Reply
KTJ
Jr. Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:14 pm

What if you "Just Run, Baby?"

Post by KTJ » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:27 am

This is for my fellow Weekend Warriors:  What if you simply planned a progression run every day?  If you want more mileage, run twice per day.  A long run on the weekend (at a progressive pace).  If you feel like crap, you cruise the whole way.  If you're feeling rather chipper, you can "run to the barn."  Always in control, never doing a run so hard that you couldn't repeat it the next day.  An example run would consist of an easy warmup period of 30 minutes.  The next 30 minutes would be a gradual, almost imperceptible increase in pace.  With 15 minutes to go, you're humming along at half marathon pace.  Then, with about 5 minutes to go, you shift into 5K pace.  The last quarter mile you're running at mile pace.  This is exactly what I did this morning, on a whim.  This is what I'm going to do tomorrow, too. 

You're touching all of the paces -- EZ pace all the way down to mile pace, every single day--IF you feel like it.  Your body will tell you when to run easy.  Your body will also tell you when to run hard.  No more confusion about interval pace, recovery, CV, tempo distance, anaerobic, V02 max, VDOT, etc etc etc.  No fretting about scheduling being interrupted by weather, no more worrying about how many days to take between workouts.

Once caveat:  During the two weeks before an important race, you do 2 or 3 workouts at goal pace.  Your goal is a 35 minute 10K?  Just do 6X1 mile at 5:30-5:40 pace, a minute or two between reps.  Or do some 2-mile reps in 11:00-11:20  Doesn't have to be exact.    Throw in a few strides for icing.

Just run, baby!

Tchuck
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: Green Bay

Re: What if you "Just Run, Baby?"

Post by Tchuck » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:11 pm

You must be reading MALMO. He isn't saying do tempos or progressions everyday but feel like you could do them a few times per week. I don't think you can run 45 min above comfortable pace every single day. Believe me, it will catch up with you and break you down. You need easier recovery days also.  You can do that progression up to 2-3 times per week on higher miles but not 7 days per week. Tinman and others have had success just pushing the pace a few times per week but was it maximum performance?

The goal is to have a purpose for each run. You don't have enough volume at each of the intensities to illicit all the benefits you can achieve. You need periodization and a plan to maximize performance. I love progressive tempo runs. You can certainly improve on progression runs if you do them 2-3 times per week with other days comfortable perhaps with striders. If you just want to pop in races for fun or are running for fun, go ahead and do them often. If you want to maximize race performance, you need a more structured plan.
Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, will SUCCEED!

KTJ
Jr. Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:14 pm

Re: What if you "Just Run, Baby?"

Post by KTJ » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:44 pm

No, it's certainly not an original idea -- Malmo, Runningart, Kudzurunner, and Tinman himself have talked about this kind of running. 

To be clear, I'm not saying to go out and hammer every day.  Of course that's counterproductive.  You only run hard IF you feel good.  As I said, you never run so hard one day that you couldn't repeat the next day.  Remember, you're steadily increasing the pace, not doing a 45 minute tempo.

It's also different that the "moderate paces" approach in that you'll be touching on the fast stuff (5K pace or better) on most days. 

ap4305
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 929
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:19 pm
Contact:

Re: What if you "Just Run, Baby?"

Post by ap4305 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:04 pm

[quote="KTJ"]
An example run would consist of an easy warmup period of 30 minutes.  The next 30 minutes would be a gradual, almost imperceptible increase in pace.  With 15 minutes to go, you're humming along at half marathon pace.  Then, with about 5 minutes to go, you shift into 5K pace.  The last quarter mile you're running at mile pace. 
[/quote]

What you have described above is harder than the classic Daniels 20 minute tempo run at T-pace, which many runners have found to be too demanding as it is.  20 minutes at half marathon pace is hard enough with a 2-3 mile warmup, a stop for hydration before the tempo segment, some strides, and maybe a change of shoes, but for most people closing out the run with 5 minutes at 5k pace and then basically a sprint to the finish would be near impossible.  Personally, on most training days I'd have enough trouble running 5 minutes at 5k pace in the beginning of the workout.   

If you are going to use malmo or Tinman as a model for this type of training, do realize that their progression runs would only progress to around marathon pace.  Malmo often gets hammered on letsrun by people saying "5 miles at marathon pace isn't hard enough" (I used to be in that camp) but after learning how Tinman tempo pace interacts with other training elements, it is clear that slower tempo paces are more appropriate for many runners.

Look, I'm all for encouraging runners to read their bodies more and rely less upon rigid formulae, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater and completely discard structured training.  If you simply want the liberation of not having to answer to a schedule, then go for it.  However, I think a better practice for optimal performance is to strike a balance between the "feel" aspects and a well designed structure. 

Additionally, even for experienced runners, feel is often misleading as to what your body is capable of on a particular day.  We've all had days where we feel like a million bucks and then fall apart a few minutes after picking up the pace.  We've also all had days where we can barely get out of the house, feel like garbage for the first part of a run, but then run spectacularly when the pace quickens.  Just as a system of "all numbers" is suboptimal for most runners, the same could be said for a system that is "all feel."     
Allan Phillips
Doctor of Physical Therapy
Tinman athlete since 2003
www.ventanapt.physio
IG: @thekettlebelldoc

ATimmins
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:01 pm
Location: Travis AFB, Ca
Contact:

Re: What if you "Just Run, Baby?"

Post by ATimmins » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:35 pm

Try it and report back.  Also think about trying adding some easy fast stuff, Danny Henderson use to do 6 x 400, starting at damn near 10k pace and ending at 1 mile pace.
Forced into running and loving every minute
1.5 Mile:
First = 13:38
Current = 7:10
Powered by Powerbar - www.powerbar.com
Dressed for Success in Brooks - www.brooksrunning.com
Running log - http://www.logarun.com/calendars/atimmins/
Running Blog - http://www.powerbar.com/blog/atimmins.aspx

ddtspir06
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:49 am

Re: What if you "Just Run, Baby?"

Post by ddtspir06 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:39 am

I think you're training plan is good for those who just want to run and not care too much about times. But for those serious about getting faster, a schedule is a must. Having workouts twice a week has been proven to be optimum to reach peak performance come race time. Your schedule of just farklets/progression runs every day can work, but remember what each person goal is. Is it to get as fast as possible within a give time frame? or is it to maintain and just enjoy running for a long long time? if the latter than i believe you can use that plan.

Post Reply