My experiment with all-moderate training

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Tinman » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:27 pm

Body fat percentage is an individual matter. I have measured a runner who was 2.3% (I repeated it on another day and it was 2.1% - he told me that the lab director measured him at 1.7%) and he was good runner. However, the guys on our team who were All-Americans, had 6-7% body fat. Most world class male runners are between 5% and 8%. Females Are about 9-13% at the world class.

At 6%, I would say you should not try to go lower.

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by ATimmins » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:27 pm

incardine, if those numbers are accurate you are quite possibly already past that point.  6% is very low.  Don't get caught up in weight loss, its only a good motivator for the ones who have it to loose.  I run my best at 147-152, if i go lower i run like crap.  There is a fine line between fueling and starving.
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Nrun » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:45 pm

[quote="Tinman"]
As I mentioned before, in a perfect world I would give runners a "hard" workout every 5-days (perhaps 6 or 7 days for older runners).

Tinman
[/quote]

Hey, I think that's me (older, that is, at 53). So is it your opinion that I might make optimal progress if I just do one hard workout a week? That actually sounds good to me, as I've been struggling a little with the two big workouts a week. Then what, like alternate a tempo with an interval run every other week or something?

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:54 pm

So today is Sunday, and I did my 'long' run of 12 miles.  First two miles were easy and untimed, and I did the next 10 miles at 6:52 average pace.  Some of the interior miles were in the 6:30 range.  Faster than I wanted to run, but I felt fine.  I ran 'comfortably hard' most of the way, but the last few miles I started feeling tired so I slowed it down to 7:10 pace.  We'll see tomorrow if I overdid it. 

incarnadine

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by incarnadine » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:14 pm

[quote="ATimmins"]
incardine, if those numbers are accurate you are quite possibly already past that point.  6% is very low.  Don't get caught up in weight loss, its only a good motivator for the ones who have it to loose.  I run my best at 147-152, if i go lower i run like crap.  There is a fine line between fueling and starving.
[/quote]

Oh, definitely. I have no interest in going lower myself. I have Crohn's disease and have to take pains to maintain my weight as high as it is, drinking milk and adding calories here and there where I can fit them in; I'm quite happy at 135 pounds.

I'm just fascinated that such a seemingly small weight difference as ten pounds is such a large projected 5k time gap.
Last edited by incarnadine on Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

incarnadine

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by incarnadine » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:16 pm

And is 2% measured by calipers, or by water displacement? That's so low that he must really stand out visually even among athletes. I'm amazed he doesn't get sick constantly with so little fat buffering his body systems.

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:50 pm

[quote="incarnadine"]

I'm just fascinated that such a seemingly small weight difference as ten pounds is such a large projected 5k time gap.
[/quote]

Carry a 5 pound dumbbell in each hand for your next 5K and then you'll realize the impact of 10 pounds... 

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by ATimmins » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:30 pm

10 LBS is huge, espeacially if its anywhere near your legs (thighs, calves, etc)  Just put on some 1 lbs ankle weights and go for a run, its eye opening (farest point from the lever) 

Makes you think about what shoes you wear....
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:34 am

I definitely over-extended myself on yesterday's 12 miler.  This morning I did my usual 2 mile jog and then started running at 7 minute"moderate" pace.  After a few miles of this it became apparent that I was struggling, so I slowed down considerably and finished up for 8 miles.  Lesson learned.  I like to vary the pace a little everyday, but overdid it a bit yesterday.

Tinman wrote something the other day about taking a few easy days in situations like this because the muscles may be low in glycogen.  I think that applies to me right now...

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Tinman » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:08 am

Nrun -

I am re-visiting ideas I had back in the late 1980's to early 1990's regarding the frequency of "hard" workouts. To me, a key is to focus on just how hard you need to run to get results (improvements in performance), how much of that hard running you should do in a given workout, and how often you need those "hard" / key workouts.  My original thoughts, back in the 1980's, regarding frequency, dealt with my own dilemmas. I typically raced well in the summer, while playing baseball and working, and I only had the energy to run hard once, no more than twice, per week. When I was very busy, and if it was very hot outside, I typically could handle a "hard" workout every 5-6 days, but if it was cool and I wasn't working as much I could handle two per week, not three or four, which was the norm.

It always bothered me that I'd start the cross-country season with the high school team and not improve. I recall starting my 1984 season with a 15:41 (3 miles) on a super hilly course, and beating a guy who placed 3rd at the state meet - who later was an 8:51 steepler at Southern IL University. I was within a close distance of the guy who was the D3 national champion in the steeplechase and he was 2nd in the cross country nationals. I know they were in shape, too, when I raced against them because I talked to them and they both told be they were running a lot (one said twice a day, running about 10 miles per day and the other said 70 miler per week all summer). What was I doing for training that put me on par with those guys? 45-50 miles per week in August, one hard 3-6 mile run per week and every other day was just easy or moderate paced mileage. No intervals, fartlek, hill reps, or even striders.

My belief is you must find you magic number and stick to it. Many people need only 1 or maybe 2 hard runs per week. Try just 1 and see how it goes for a month.

Tinman
Last edited by Tinman on Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nancyd

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by nancyd » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:41 am

Is there as much a difference in times at marathon distance?  Can you give an idea of how much faster that would make a person?  Thanks.

Nancy

nancyd

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by nancyd » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:05 pm

Sorry, that response was unclear.
I'm asking about the results of 10 pounds weight loss on marathon times. 
Thanks, Nancy

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:42 pm

For two days in a row I've had "dead legs."  This morning I did 7 slow, untimed miles, and even stopped and <gasp> walked a couple of times.  I would have walked home but that would have made me late to work.

I should note that I have either a cold or  bad seasonal allergies right now.  Have a lot of congestion in my sinuses and lungs, so I'm not too concerned.  I may just take tomorrow off entirely; we'll see.

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Tinman » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:12 pm

10lbs is a lot to carry in a marathon! Yes, it makes a difference, but again it comes down to being healthy. As long as you are healthy, losing some fat-weight is going to improve performance.
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sadmemories20

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by sadmemories20 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:27 am

I think you will continue to enjoy the moderate approach to training for races (that last up to about an hour).


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