My experiment with all-moderate training

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road dog

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by road dog » Sun May 15, 2011 10:28 am

KTG,
I ran in college, and like yourself I am 5'9.  Graduated in 1997, I was 132-lbs.  I kept up the running.  However, fast-forward 14-years later, I weigh 125-lbs.  The difference for me was in college, I would tend to be always injured for a portion or two of every year, missing 6-weeks for each injury.  Now, I run everyday, however my track workouts are slower, and I don't race as much.  My suggestion is consistency (w/ your schedule).

-road dog

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:59 pm

Update:  I ran this way most of April and into May, but couldn't manage the pace very well.  Too frequently on days I felt good I'd end up running way too hard, then be trashed for the next few days.  Out of frustration I quit doing this and went back to conventional training.  I still remained at my 17:30 5K level.

I got a GPS watch in early July and again began doing all-moderate running.  I'm doing much better this time around.  In a typical run I start out slow for the first mile or two, then cruise at 6:45-7:00 pace the rest of the way.  I do about 10 miles a day this way, and in two months I've seen my average pace drop from 7:20 to 7:00 per run (and falling).  Occasionally I'll "run to the barn" and do my last mile around 6 minutes.

My next race is early September.  I will not do any interval/tempo runs prior to then, but I will continue to do strides 1-2 days a week.  Should be interesting to see how I do this fall.  I really enjoy this approach.

incarnadine

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by incarnadine » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:36 pm

I'm anticipating switching to this method, due to impending newborn baby.

Tinman
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Tinman » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:53 pm

Be sure to not run "hard to the barn" too often.
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slacker

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by slacker » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:59 pm

Hello.  I have question if you don't mind Tinman.  I like the moderate paced approach and have ran a low 15 5k in the past.  However, I am somewhat limited to 30 minutes/day on most days.  Am able to get in a slightly longer run once a week from 45 minutes-1 hour.  Would/could this approach still produce some results.  I am approaching 40 and would just like go get back under 18 for a 5k.  Thanks.

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Tinman » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:14 pm

Hi Slacker!

Yes, it can work, but don't expect to reap the same benefits that you would get from running an hour per day. I used a limited mileage approach a few times in the past, and I learned the hard way that, as odd as it seems, running hard intervals on a lower mileage schedule doesn't work very well for races above 800m. I think a person can get away with more abusive hard interval/rep training when they run more mileage. The mileage offsets the loss of endurance that high intensity training creates. Yes, high intensity training lowers endurance. High intensity training increases short-term power, but it erodes stamina and endurance. You'll notice that many runners who use the low mileage, high intensity approach to training run good races in just two situations. The first is when they are doing a lot of hard reps. You'd think they need to rest, but they actually do better after running, say, 16 x 400m hard than if they run just 8 reps hard. Why? It's because their 8 x 400m approach doesn't sufficiently develop their stamina and endurance. The other situation is when they have an extended taper. Oddly, they perform better after 2-3 days of full rest or after several days of very low mileage and striders or short time-trials. They run better after resting because their body's endurance was sucked dry by lots of hard interval training and they just need time to rebound. However, the optimal approach is generally not lower mileage and high intensity. Some runners can run good race-times on a low mileage approach, but the thing is they are more fragile, in terms of predictability. One time they race well; the next time they don't. They yo-yo a lot, and that can be frustrating. You'll sometimes see and amazing twist: runners on low mileage/high intensity sometimes get sick or injured, and they have to take several days off. They worrry that they won't be able to race well, but on race-day they fly. What? That can't be, they think. But, the rest did them some good.

In a perfect world, you balance training volume, intensity, and recovery. You find, in most cases, that you must sacrifice how hard you push any one of those areas. You can't run too much volume or your legs feel like lead (heavy). You can't run too many fast intervals or you lose all your endurance. You can't recover (rest/relax/reduce volume) too much or you become unfit. Thus, you must BLEND those three areas, in principle. to get the best balance.

Okay, I am some moving to do!

Tom
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slacker

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by slacker » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:26 am

Thanks for the thorough reply Tinman!

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:07 pm

If you're already spending the time to change clothes, run 30 minutes, shower, etc, why not stay out there a bit longer and run for one hour?  You'll double your mileage and it'll make a ton of difference come race day.  Lots of busy working stiffs (with spouses and kids) manage the time to run lots of miles.

A typical day for me is

Wakeup at 5AM
Out the door at 5:20
Back home at 6:30
Shower and help get the kids off to school
Off to work at 7:30

dwang_71

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by dwang_71 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:00 pm

Of course all Tinman posts are without question spot on and to KTJ's point, I have two young kids and a demanding job so I wake up at 4:15am, out the door by 4:30 and I fit in about 75-80 minute run and out the door to work around 7:30 with kids in tow. Depending on my workout ,I try to fit in 8-10 miles Mon-Friday on my morning runs.

If I have a light workday where I can fit in a 40 minute run at lunch then I take that opportunity to do a double. On average, I am able to fit in 1-2 doubles a week and on the weekend, I wake up around 4:30am on Sat or Sun and fit in a long run between 16-20 miles and then I am home to do chores, take my daughter to soccer and other family obligations and one day would be rest and sleep in!

I have been averaging 60-70 miles a week for the past year or so with a few off weeks due to recovery and rest weeks where I drop to 50 or less. I try to follow a 2 week on and 1 week off schedule. This schedule works well for me as if I have a busy week or tired from family obligations or just plain tired from a busy life, I take an easy week and do one Tinman workout instead of two and the rest easy days avg between 7:40-8:30 min/mile runs with a few striders at the end of my runs and doing 5-8 miles instead of shooting for 8-10 miles.

Knock on wood, but I have not been injured in my 6.5 years of serious running when my first daughter was born, which prompted me to begin running. I was a 3:15-10 marathoner for the longest time without breaking through until I found Tinman and TRZ. Since his following his training philosophy of moderation, I have been able to peak a few weeks this past year at 100 plus miles a week which I never thought my body could handle as I had tried before but could only get up to 80 miles a week.

I probably could push a little more on my hard workouts, but I tend to be more conservative because as a newly turned 40 year old, I choose longetivity and consistency in my running and maintain my injury free streak rather than pushing too hard and getting injured where I get laid out for weeks. Running has become part of me and I can't imagine not being able to run for weeks due to injury.

My best 5K this year is 17:53 and half marathon is 1:23 and I finally cracked 3 hours last December in 2:59:52 for the marathon. A little too close for my taste so I am trying again next year to get a larger cushion.

No matter how busy your schedule, you can make it happen if you really want something or have great passion for it.

Sorry for the long post. I haven't posted for awhile. My first time in months. Thanks everyone! I love reading all the great threads, topics, and advice. Keep it up!

BoilerTom90
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by BoilerTom90 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:35 pm

Wow, Danny, you've been busy since Boston! Nice mileage!!

TexNav
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by TexNav » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:17 am

Great to hear people chiming in with great stories.

Wellpark

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Wellpark » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:48 am

Dwang,

Your post is inspirational. It gave me a boost for the day.

Total admiration for your energy and zest for life!

All the best with your steady progress.

Jude

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by oro » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:49 am

[quote="dwang_71"]
I wake up at 4:15am, out the door by 4:30...
[/quote]

Now that's impressive! And the rest of it too. Good luck in your future training!

All the best,

oro

dwang_71

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by dwang_71 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:39 pm

Thanks guys! The feeling and inspiration are mutual. I totally admire you guys like Oro and WellPark who are competing at the masters level. You all inspire me to get up so early and hit my workouts rain or shine. I come here and read posts to get inspired before I hit my next hard workout. A lot of my friends and family who are not runners wonder why I "do this" to myself knowing I don't always have a particular race in mind but yet I train so hard. I ask them, why do you spend hours at the driving range hittng golf balls or spend your hard earned money and hours working on your car engine or whatever their passion may be? Usually that gets the point across and they don't question what I do "for fun".
I do it because I love the sport and love running for no other reason. I don't even have to have a race to train for but I treat all my weeks and days as if I am priming for the most important race of my life.

Thanks again everyone. Keep up the great posts!

TexNav
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by TexNav » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:18 pm

I have passed on this article a number of times, so I might be making a repeat post. I think this article really says a lot and I think also provides a way to answer someone who asks another why they "do this". You either love some thing, some action, some habit, or some result/endstate/outcome, etc., that you will choose it over another option. I have a number of friends who will talk with me about diet, exercise, etc., etc., and of course the majority of them don't follow through with their stated plans (Not sure whether it is not having specific goals, not focusing on the specific actions to follow to meet those goals, though I do try to help identify those for my friends). Anyways, I've gotten to the point where I just send them the link to this article. This article applies right back to me too and ultimately things that I claim I "want" to do will be evidenced by whether or not I follow through.

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Articles ... pline.aspx

You are obviously doing something you love to do and doing it well.

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