My experiment with all-moderate training

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Wellpark

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by Wellpark » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:00 am

An interesting article. I hope this ultimatley leads toward the love of others and a desire to see everyone improve and find a joy for life.

I have heard and seen too many people do selfish and damaging things with the waiver 'I must do this to demonstrate my love for myself'

I can't stand that add with the phrase 'because I'm worth it'.

We're all worth it! This world is an amazing place with incredible people and mind blowing actions. The most inspirational tend to be of the self sacrificing nature. Even when we train we are sacrificing comfort for improvement.

All the best and have a great day.

Wellpark

KTJ
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:56 pm

Quick update:  This training is working for me.  I ran a 17:10 on a hilly 5K course yesterday.  I ran this same race last year in 17:55!  With the exception of one interval workout I ran 2 weeks ago (mile repeats with some friends), I haven't run a timed workout of any sort since June.  Just 9-10 miles a day, progressive style. 

ap4305
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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by ap4305 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:22 pm

[quote="KTJ"]
Quick update:  This training is working for me.  I ran a 17:10 on a hilly 5K course yesterday.  I ran this same race last year in 17:55!  With the exception of one interval workout I ran 2 weeks ago (mile repeats with some friends), I haven't run a timed workout of any sort since June.  Just 9-10 miles a day, progressive style.
[/quote]

Nice work.  Any training method that keeps the individual athlete healthy and consistent with positive results over a long term is a good one.  There are many roads to Rome!
Allan Phillips
Doctor of Physical Therapy
Tinman athlete since 2003
www.ventanapt.physio
IG: @thekettlebelldoc

dkggpeters

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by dkggpeters » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:10 pm

An interesting article from Jack Farrell whom was the Cross Country/Track coach from Thousand Oaks Ca follow the moderate training philosophy which I found interesting.  I ran for Simi Valley back in 79-81 and they were our rivals and had great success over the years and won CIF Southern Section a couple of times.

http://www.coacheseducation.com/xc/jack ... uly_00.htm

RunningTy

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by RunningTy » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:41 pm

This is great thread!

Apparently an all-moderate schedule should include regular races.  But would it make any sense to put in big workouts instead of races?  I'm thinking of a schedule like:

Sun: Big workout
Mon: Slow
Tue: Easy/moderate
Wed: Moderate
Thu: Moderate
Fri: Moderate
Sat: Moderate minus

Put another way, would it make sense to exchange two big workouts with one big workout and several days of moderate running?

The aims are:
- to keep in touch with the longer distances
- to avoid only two easy days between bw's
- to have regular runs during the week
- to be free to run a big workout anytime in the weekend without messing up next week

I like big workouts, but as a master runner, it's sometimes a bit difficult to recover fast enough for two of them every week.  I imagine I would feel more relaxed if I didn't have the tension that comes with doing a big workout in the middle of the week.  (Also I do not fancy slow long runs...)

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by ap4305 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:13 pm

[quote="Bush runner"]

Apparently an all-moderate schedule should include regular races.  But would it make any sense to put in big workouts instead of races?  I'm thinking of a schedule like:

Sun: Big workout
Mon: Slow
Tue: Easy/moderate
Wed: Moderate
Thu: Moderate
Fri: Moderate
Sat: Moderate minus

[/quote]

Big workouts come with a high metabolic cost that escalates dramatically once you exceed a certain threshold.  The body needs rest to recover from this. 

All-moderate running can put you right on the edge in terms of taxing your carbohydrate stores.  Regularly scheduled big workouts may push you over the limit.  Big Workout also means Big Recovery.  That doesn't mean you can't run an occasional long distance race (10mile, half marathon), but I'd advise against mixing two very different training systems (Big Workout and All-moderate) which have very different demands. 

If the two Big Workout system isn't working, but you believe there's merit in that system for you, I'd simply make the Big Workouts "less Big".  Not all Big workouts are created equal and there is a continuum of "Big-ness."
Allan Phillips
Doctor of Physical Therapy
Tinman athlete since 2003
www.ventanapt.physio
IG: @thekettlebelldoc

RunningTy

Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by RunningTy » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Thanks, ap.  What you say makes sense.  Although I have no experience with all-moderate running, I've done Hadd-style training which also includes a lot of running at sub-MP.  And it did indeed push me over the edge even though I tried to be careful.

I think there's a mental part to it too.  If I don't get the second bw done by Wednesday, I have to do the next on Sunday, and then very soon I'll have to skip one bw if I want to get back to running on Saturday.  That makes for 5 days of easy running which will make me feel "guilty" of not doing enough and worried that the same may happen next week.  I've never been worn out by two bw's per week though, so I'm not working too hard.

Unfortunately we don't have weeks of 8 days...

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by KTJ » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:01 pm

As I mentioned, I had good success doing this sort of training from June through mid-September, and ended up with a (post-collegiate) PR of 17:10. 

HOWEVER:  starting in late September I felt I needed a little more race-pace focused training.  So, I began doing a more traditional program using a hybrid Tinman/Joe Rubio approach.  Result?  I recently ran 16:54 on a hilly, windy day.

M-  AM: 8-10 moderate
T-  Intervals.  Rotate 3X1 mile at 8K (or 5X1K CV) one week, 8-10X400 at 3K the next.  Not very hard, and not more than 3 miles.
W-  AM: 11 mile progressive run, starting at 8 min pace and working down to 6 min pace the last mile or two.  PM: easy 4
T-  8-10 moderate
F-  AM: 4 very easy 4  PM: 4 very easy
S-  10 miles, including 20-30 minute Tinman tempo
S-  12-13 miles easy
repeat, repeat, repeat

Running solid 10 milers every day in the summer gave me a great aerobic base, and what I'm doing now is the icing.  I've knocked over half a minute off of my PR this year, after having been stuck at 17:30-17:50 for two entire years.  I attribute the improvement to the all-moderate approach I took for nearly 4 months.  Still, I don't do any very hard workouts and prefer to keep everything balanced, steady, and relaxed. 

Hopefully my budget committee (wife) will free up some funds for Tinman's coaching.  I'll bet I can get back to the low 16's, if not high 15's. 

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Re: My experiment with all-moderate training

Post by ap4305 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:10 pm

Thanks for sharing, KTJ.  A few reasons, as I see it, why you are reaping the benefits...

1) Consistency - Four months of solid base before adding harder work

2) Harder work not really that hard (30 min tinman tempo and short interval session)

2a) Long run not very long

3) You have been an accomplished runner in the past, which provided many years of base for you to handle this type of training density.  Tinman was a good runner himself for many years before utilizing his version of the moderate approach (3 day cycle). 
Allan Phillips
Doctor of Physical Therapy
Tinman athlete since 2003
www.ventanapt.physio
IG: @thekettlebelldoc

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