Interpret my times vs Tinman Calculator

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runkona
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Interpret my times vs Tinman Calculator

Post by runkona » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:36 pm

In the last 4 weeks I have done 5/10/21k

If my distance is xx:xx...Tinman calculator predicts my as  10K.......13.1...........26.2
actual race 5k    18:02                                                    37:34    1:22:59    2:53:31
.................10k    38:50                                                  ...........    1:25:26  2:59:22
.................13.1  1:26:55                                                ...........    ............    3:01:54

ignoring splits, course profile, wind and weather...all things being equal: where am I failing? strength in the longer run? if so what is needed to improve endurance or is it speed
FWIW my CV's are @6:12 on a treadmill. I have made the suggestion to increase TM incline from 2% to 3%. FYI 1% is equal to zero grade and nil wind resistance. I figure increasing the % grade would help. What do you think?
Last edited by runkona on Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jeff_D
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Re: Interpret my times vs Tinman Calculator

Post by Jeff_D » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:29 pm

It's hard to say what you are 'lacking' without knowing more about you as a runner and your training. Issue could be that you are more of a mile type guy so you won't expect the same trend as a 10k-HM type runner. Additionally, its worthwhile to remember that the calculator predicts equivalent performances which means that you punch in a 5k time and it spits out a performance that is equal. I doubt that Komen could've cranked a HM in 59 minutes but he was perfectly capable of a 12:37 5k!

As far as whats lacking, I would say stamina or endurance. I refrain from giving a more definitive answer as I'm just someone who casually follows tinman training and can't speak for him. I would say that the places to look are (1) training volume (2)pace of stamina work (i.e. running too fast in tempo/CV workouts )  (3) volume of stamina work (running CV/tempo too infrequently or not enough volume per session) or (4) volume/frequency of Long Run. It could even be a combination of these things! I suggest posting some of your training and more info about yourself so that therunzone community can better help you address the issue.

I thought of a few more issues that could've come into play: Tactics - did you go out too hard in the 10k/HM? Or Maybe you just lack the 'big workouts' do run the half marathon. I'm not sure how much Tinman advocates doing those for the HM but I imagine they would be very helpful in developing the stamina-endurance you seek. Although that is dependent on what your short term training goals are. If you are training for the 5k then big workouts might not be the most effective way to improve your stamina.

The best advice I can give is to get coached by tinman himself! It will ensure you are getting the personalized and appropriate advice.

Best of Luck,

Jeff

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Re: Interpret my times vs Tinman Calculator

Post by Tinman » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:17 am

RK -

As stated by Jeff D., the times are not predictors; they are equivalents. You may have a history of doing too hard intervals, and therefore your skew is toward power, and you are lacking the stamina or the high-end endurance needed for racing longer distances well. It could be that you have a lot of fast-twitch (Type 2) muscle fibers, too, so you would naturally have more speed than stamina or endurance; in such a situation you would have to increase mileage or do more stamina or high-end endurance workouts for a several weeks or months to reduce the discrepancy between your short-term power and long-term endurance. Runners I have coached in the past has made statements to the effect that they used to be severely lopsided toward speed/power and with my training philosophy they shored-up the discrepancy in a few months time. My suggestion is doing the stamina and high-end endurance training necessary to transform your type 2 fibers into stamina fibers. If you have a history of not doing mileage, that will help too. It's not a quick fix process; you must stick to the right method; use it systematically and strategically; and you must have patience to develop that weakness you have.

Regards,

Tinman
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Inquire via email:
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runkona
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Re: Interpret my times vs Tinman Calculator

Post by runkona » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:45 am

[quote="Jeff_D"]
It's hard to say what you are 'lacking' without knowing more about you as a runner and your training. Issue could be that you are more of a mile type guy so you won't expect the same trend as a 10k-HM type runner. Additionally, its worthwhile to remember that the calculator predicts equivalent performances which means that you punch in a 5k time and it spits out a performance that is equal. I doubt that Komen could've cranked a HM in 59 minutes but he was perfectly capable of a 12:37 5k!

As far as whats lacking, I would say stamina or endurance. I refrain from giving a more definitive answer as I'm just someone who casually follows tinman training and can't speak for him. I would say that the places to look are (1) training volume (2)pace of stamina work (i.e. running too fast in tempo/CV workouts )  (3) volume of stamina work (running CV/tempo too infrequently or not enough volume per session) or (4) volume/frequency of Long Run. It could even be a combination of these things! I suggest posting some of your training and more info about yourself so that therunzone community can better help you address the issue.

I thought of a few more issues that could've come into play: Tactics - did you go out too hard in the 10k/HM? Or Maybe you just lack the 'big workouts' do run the half marathon. I'm not sure how much Tinman advocates doing those for the HM but I imagine they would be very helpful in developing the stamina-endurance you seek. Although that is dependent on what your short term training goals are. If you are training for the 5k then big workouts might not be the most effective way to improve your stamina.

The best advice I can give is to get coached by tinman himself! It will ensure you are getting the personalized and appropriate advice.

Best of Luck,

Jeff
[/quote]

Jeff & TM,

stamina or endurance...& ...

doing the stamina and high-end endurance training necessary to transform your type 2 fibers into stamina fibers. If you have a history of not doing mileage, that will help too.

the above stmts from you both would seem to cover it nicely, that'll be where it would be. Thank you both. We'll I'll be back in a couple of months to report back.
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