HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Featuring TheRunZone?s resident coach Tinman. All participants are welcome to post and reply to topics in this section whether you?re looking for advice, or sharing your own coaching experience.

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by Tinman » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:44 pm

Zach -

I recommend the following workout for your son.

Example time of 10:20 (3200m):

W-up away from the track, but the surface should be flat and safe: 1600m at 8:12-7:20 pace + 1600m at 6:37 pace. Then, immediately, run

Threshold away from the track, but the surface should be flat and safe: 1 x 1600m in 5:43 (jog 400 in 2:30)

Cut-downs: 3 x 800m in 2:35, 2:31, and 2:27 (jog 400m btw and after).

Speed: 5 x 60m at 800-400m racing speed (walk back recoveries); do a rep every 2 minutes.

C-down: 3200m at 8:12-7:20 pace.

Total Distance: 11,900m or just over 7 miles

Take care,

Tinman

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by ZachCC » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:21 pm

Thanks Tinman for your help! We will do that on Saturday, he has run 10:12, think he can break 10 next week.

Would the following be ok for next week? This is what I am do during CC
During peak week of CC-
Sat-we did VO2-5x800 w/equal rest
Sun-off
Mon-40 min
Tues-we did 8x200 w/100 jog the 100 walk, we did them as cut down-got faster each one,
Wed-Tinman 4 mile tempo on hilly course avg 6:27-tough course
Thur-40,
Fri-20,
Sat- State 5k-huge PR-16:37

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by ZachCC » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:29 pm

Tinman,

Son did workout-
1600-7:45
1600-6:15-little faster than wanted-done on dirt road
1600-5:25-little fast, dirt road
800-2:32-done on black top track-not rubber-seems to run slow
800-2:33-was hoping for 2:30
800-2:33-hoping for 2:28
5x60
2 mile cool-down

Pretty good workout, was hoping for a little better on 800's, but looked on 1600's, he always seems to do better on mile repeats.
He did 3x1000 w/200-avg 3:19, then hit 2x800 in 2:32 avg last Sat.
He is a better racer than practice person, I have learned.
thanks for help Tinman

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by Jeff_D » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:20 am

[quote="ZachCC"]
Tinman,

Son did workout-
1600-7:45
1600-6:15-little faster than wanted-done on dirt road
1600-5:25-little fast, dirt road
800-2:32-done on black top track-not rubber-seems to run slow
800-2:33-was hoping for 2:30
800-2:33-hoping for 2:28
5x60
2 mile cool-down

Pretty good workout, was hoping for a little better on 800's, but looked on 1600's, he always seems to do better on mile repeats.
He did 3x1000 w/200-avg 3:19, then hit 2x800 in 2:32 avg last Sat.
He is a better racer than practice person, I have learned.
thanks for help Tinman
[/quote]

Just my 2 cents having been there before... He ran way too hard for those 2nd and 3rd 1600s. To be effective and ensure you are doing the proper work, you need to explain that while the times are recommended times that means they should generally only be modified to be slower if the conditions are not ideal. 20s/mile is a huge difference, no wonder he was struggling to hit the 800 times!

best of luck,

Jeff

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by ZachCC » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:06 am

I agree Jeff, he was too fast on 1600's, I tried to explain that to him before and after workout, especially since he did not hit goal 800 times and he was disappointed, he is a freshman, so still struggles on pacing.  :)

Still trying to figure out what to do with him this week, to be ready for Saturday!
thanks

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by FTIR » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:57 pm

Tinman,
Can you explain why you wanted the workout done away from the track?

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by Tinman » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:21 pm

I suggested running the first portion of the workout away from the track for two reasons. First, with workouts and track meets, kids already spend a lot of time on the track, so after awhile it's not so exciting to "go to the track." Second, by doing a portion of the workout away from the track a runner reduces the chances of acquiring an overuse injury. Running around the track, lap after lap, can induce an IT band or patella-femoral problem. Keeping athletes injury-free is a huge part of the success formula!
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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by FTIR » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:37 pm

Tinman,
Thank you.  In HS, I would have done anything to stay off the track.  Of course, I always did every workout my coach gave me on the track faster and/or longer than intended.  Isn't it a wonder I hated it?

Now I love the track because it is the only place I can control myself enough to follow your training....

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by BURN7 » Thu May 02, 2013 10:33 am

Zach or Tinman

When in the season was the workout prescribed at the top of page 2?  Was it a peaking workout 10 fays before the peak date or done closer to the date?  Or, was it done in the middle of season, or was it run to make up for some fitness or replenish stamina lost during the racing season?

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by ZachCC » Thu May 02, 2013 12:51 pm

Peaking, last 10 days. We were trying to sharpen him up for 3200 meter. :)
He has Regionals on Sat, ranked 10th, only Top 4 got to State, but I think if he break 10, he has a shot!

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by runthe8 » Thu May 02, 2013 3:53 pm

Good luck!  I hated this time of year as a hs coach; always worried I was going to mess it up for my kids. 

If anyone has any input for my son's last weeks of the season, I'd appreciate it...he has districts on May 16-17, Regionals on the 22nd, and if the stars align, States on the 31st/1st (long shot).  I do not know what he will be running, but some combo of 800, 1600 and 3200.  Since I don't coach him, I have to be sneaky, but with races this Saturday the 4th and on the 10th, there isn't a whole lot of room for workouts anyway.  Still, I try to help him tweak whatever his coach gives him since she never assigns times to their workouts "run 4 times 800 meters at 90%"  which inevitably he runs as a CV workout and then tacks on some 200's at mile pace, plus appropriate warm ups and cooldowns.  Yesterday, he ran some workout with 400-400-200-200 then 400-200-400-200.  She gave him no times to hit but he ran between 65 and 71 on the 400's and 30-31 on the 200's.  I think there were some short rests in there but I'm not sure exactly how the workout was structured. 

I've been looking over all the suggested sharpening/peaking workouts and it seems I need to figure out what he is lacking: stamina or speed?  I don't know.  He has run 2:04, 4:36, and 9:56.  He has run one 400 in a relay and split 56 high I think, not fabulous, but I'm pretty sure he can run faster than that now.  All of these races were either even splits or negative splits.  He has only run the 3200 once, but I think it is his best shot at making the state meet since the qualifying time is 9:44.  1600 is 4:27 for states.  He thinks he can get this if he is fresh and has a good race.  I'm not so sure. He seems reasonably balanced between speed and stamina, but what do you guys think?  He is running between 40 and 48 miles a week.

On Saturday he is probably running the 4x800 and the 1600.  He had hoped to run a fresh 1600 and the open 800, but his coach said no.  On the 10th, I think he is going to go for the 3200 again and try to get the state qualifying time.  Of course, this is if his coach cooperates.  He doesn't double great- last weekend he ran the 4:36 and then came back with a 2:07 in the open 800 about 3 hours later.  I think qualifying in any event by time is going to take a fresh race.

Any ideas what might help him get those 1600/3200 goals?

Oh, and Burn7, how did your girl do at Penn?  I want to figure out who she is  :)

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Re: HS Coaches/parents- How's the season going?

Post by BURN7 » Fri May 03, 2013 1:31 pm

She finished middle of the pack.  Nothing outstanding but a decent effort.  That field was LOADED!  She should have run the mile instead.  SHe is a negative splitter in an ideal world but the field took it out in 5:10 so she was was stuck running 5:12.  She faded after that.  Moral of story...mor CV and Tempo.  I did a tempo on Wed. and today is CV with 200's.

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