TempoThreshold/AP

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BURN7
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TempoThreshold/AP

Post by BURN7 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:23 pm

So I totally have an understanding of what a tempo run is and why it is beneficial.  I also have a grasp on Tinman's tempo pace.  What I do need clarification on is Threshold pace and how that relates/differs from tempo runs.  Would threshold be like "Jack Daniels" cruise miles?  Get a faster tempo effort in with short breaks or is the rationale different from a tempo?  Also what is an AP?

I saw a video where Shalane Flanagan ran a 7.5 mile tempo alternating pace per mile.  5:40 for slow and 5:10 for fast.  How would that relate to tinman training?  Does anyone know why she alternated pacing?  Is it just a way to get higher mileage for a tempo? 

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/249638 ... -Episode-7

dkggpeters
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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by dkggpeters » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:49 pm

Threshold pace is your one hour race pace which would be what Daniels calls a 20 minute tempo run.  A Tinman tempo is generally a longer duration (40 to 45 minutes) and is closer to aerobic threshold.  There are reasons to do both and Tinman can answer the question as to why and when.

AP is slightly faster then 5K race pace intervals which some call VO2 max although it is not.  VO2 max is closer to 3K pace.

Shalane's tempo looks like a Wave Tempo in which you can get some good info here:

http://maximumperformancerunning.blogspot.com/2013/04/my-secret-weapon-threshold-workout.html

BURN7
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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by BURN7 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:36 pm

Awesome!  Thanks so much for responding and posting that link.  I loved the article.  I already sent it to my athlete.  I just got a smart phone...life changer!  It will make me a better coach.

Tinman
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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by Tinman » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:57 pm

I've called the alternation of tempo running Wave Workouts since 1989, and I've been interviewed on the topic a few times. Spareribs, a writer who is one of our community members, wrote an article in one of the Dallas newspaper about my Wave Workout options.

Regardless, the Wave Workout is legitimate and works especially well in two situations: (1) Training for the marathon or half-marathon race and (2) shoring-up aerobic fitness; improving one's base aerobic endurance efficiently and quickly.

Yes, Daniels' original tempo is the same as threshold (about 1-hour race-pace). I always used a tempo that was slower than Daniels. Mine was based on estimated 2.5 mmols of lactate, which is about 2.5 hour race-pace. 
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ap4305
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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by ap4305 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:26 am

[quote="BURN7"]
What I do need clarification on is Threshold pace and how that relates/differs from tempo runs. 
[/quote]

Also consider that slower tempo runs are an effective accompaniment to the emphasis on Critical Velocity paced running in the Tinman system (typically 8-12k race pace depending on the runner).  Because CV pace is such a valuable "bang for your buck" pace, it gives you the freedom to slow down the continuous tempo runs and (generally) limit threshold paced running to mile repeats, while still obtaining ample fitness benefits. 

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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by qrkid » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:20 am

If I normally do 6 x 1000 with 60sec (200m) jog CV workout. What are the thoughts of changing that up every 2nd or 3rd week and doing a 6k wave workout where you are going at LT for the fast and AT for the slow?

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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by Tinman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:23 am

That would be fine!
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BURN7
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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by BURN7 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:46 pm

That would ne a nice way to spice things up.  CV for a few weeks then crank out the wave.  By LT you mean threshold or tinman tempo?

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Re: TempoThreshold/AP

Post by qrkid » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:58 pm

Start with a slow ie aerobic threshold (tempo in tinmans calculator)  then fast at lactate threshold (threshold in Tinman calculator)

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