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Re: Cycling Training, Racing, Physiology, and Racing Tactics

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:02 am
by Schebo
[quote="monica"]
[quote="Tinman"]
Normally, quads are not the primary muscles that generate force in running (they absorb shock). Only on hills do quads work extensively, normally. If you "squat" while running, then sure your quads will be used more than is normal.[/quote]

Can you tell me more about what you mean by "squatting" while running? Maybe it's a problem I'd need to fix! Thanks
[/quote]
Arthur Lydiard used to say that you should´t "sit in a bucket" when you´re running.
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608027 ... 9&rs=0&p=0

Re: Cycling Training, Racing, Physiology, and Racing Tactics

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:00 pm
by Tinman
The illustration (link) that Schebo provided could not be better! To run effectively, you need to push your pelvis underneath you - hip joints above ankles, rather than "sitting in the bucket," which is a phrase Lydiard borrowed from Bill Bowerman (they were good friends!).

Re: Cycling Training, Racing, Physiology, and Racing Tactics

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:50 pm
by monica
thanks! I was told a while ago that I run with a very straight upper body but I'll try to check for this issue of "sitting in the bucket" more closely as it might be pace dependent in my case.

Re: Cycling Training, Racing, Physiology, and Racing Tactics

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:50 pm
by Tinman
It is my recollection that Donald Slocum, M.D., was one of the first to talk about "sitting in the bucket" and he was a friend of Bill Bowerman, Head Track & Field Coach at the University of Oregon, and originator / co-owner of Nike shoes . Dr. Slocum was in charge of a highly regarded sports medicine clinic in Eugene, Oregon. He studied many elite runners, as well as recreational runners, and discovered a lot of facts about injuries they experienced.

Here is a reference which I recall as correct, but I don't have the article in front of me now to verify it.

Slocum, D.B., & James, S.L. (1968). Biomechanics of running. Journal of the American Medical Association, 205, 721-728.

ajs.sagepub.com/content/3/5/260.full.pdf

Re: Cycling Training, Racing, Physiology, and Racing Tactics

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:37 pm
by monica
thanks!


...I was also thinking maybe it only happens when muscles get a bit tired from running? When I was checked for running form I was pretty fresh

Re: Cycling Training, Racing, Physiology, and Racing Tactics

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:51 pm
by RunRide
[quote="Tinman"]
I suggest that frequency in running is far more important than in cycling. Run five times per week but not the same amount per run.
[/quote]


My brain didn't understand why cycling frequency is less important when you typed this. I would like to report that I have been running 4 times a week and riding 2 times a week for the past 7 weeks(alternating sport each day with 1 day off a week).  With so little time on the bike I somehow PR'd 4 segments on my 20 mile ride yesterday.  My brain still does not understand it but it's true about frequency on the bike.  I guess my progression in running has helped my biking.

Thanks, Tinman!

Re: Cycling Training, Racing, Physiology, and Racing Tactics

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:54 pm
by Tinman
While working on Building Your Running Body, I came across research which I read many years ago. The research demonstrated that running training will help cycling but (basically) not the other way around. This of course doesn't apply to the unfit person, who benefits from nearly all types of exercise. Arthur Lydiard, as one who observed the effects of training well, even said decades ago that running helps all other sports. He is right! But, I can tell you this: I've been in amazingly fit for cycling and at the same time could not run well at all. In the early 1990s, i was running 45-50 miles per with the cross-country team that I coached and not cycling at all. I jumped in a duathlon - a run, bike, run event - and beat 90% of the people in the event. My running fitness transferred. In the late 1990s, I cycled all summer 20-60 miles per day, and I was crazy fit for cycling. I jumped in a 5k road race and it was horrible!