Shoe question

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Captainblood
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Shoe question

Post by Captainblood » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:58 am

After returning to running over a year ago I was put in a stability shoe at a top running store because of muscle and tendon soreness.  The Asics GT 2000s felt great.  I was staying uninjured so I stuck with them for the year.  Why fix something that wasn't broken?

I was searching for a second model of shoes that I could rotate into my workouts to break up the repetitive footstrikes.  I gave the Brooks Adrenalines 13s and the Ghost 5s a shot.  At first the Adrenalines felt like a little too much shoe and the Ghosts felt like not enough shoe.  I put them on the shelf and would every once in a while wear them.

Since then the Adrenalines feel a lot more comfortable and I wear them once or twice a week.  But I have started wearing the Ghosts on my tempo runs and faster workouts.  They feel great.  The workouts seem easy.

I'm not sure if this is psychological, physiological (I'm getting in better shape) or perhaps a neutral shoe is unlocking something in my mechanics that is making my runs easier.  But has anyone else had an experience like this or have any insight on what might be going on?

dkggpeters
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Re: Shoe question

Post by dkggpeters » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:48 am

And why do you think the shoes are making the workouts easier?  It is fitness gains. 

Shoes or other aids (supplements, etc...) will only have a minor impact on your running.  The impact comes from consistent smart training day in and day out.  A pair of race shoes may get me 2 or 3 seconds a mile and that's probably about it.  The rest comes from training and putting the miles in.

Captainblood
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Re: Shoe question

Post by Captainblood » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:54 am

Whether or not they make me faster is a secondary concern.  My primary concern is whether or not I belong in neutral shoes.  I was just wondering if the neutral shoe could be a more natural fit for my body and is allowing me to run with better mechanics.  Has anyone has heard or experienced anything like that?

The facts are that they feel great and they don't seem to be giving me any issues.

The fact that a neutral shoe feels good in faster workouts is making me think I should try something like the Skechers Go Runs as a "racing flat."  I believe it is neutral and a little lighter than what I currently wear.

dkggpeters
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Re: Shoe question

Post by dkggpeters » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:15 am

I question why a running store would recommend a stability shoe because of soreness.  This is not fixing the problem and only providing a short term band aid which has negative consequences as these areas will become weaker as the stability shoe is acting like a brace.

I believe that you should run in the least amount of shoe in which you will not get injured.  A more minimal shoe will allow free movement of the feet and ankles which can allow for better mechanics assuming you do not over pronate.  My recommendation is to ease your way down to a more neutral minimal shoe over time and at the same time work on strengthening the feet.

Captainblood
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Re: Shoe question

Post by Captainblood » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:18 am

I listened to your advice in the past and have been doing a lot of calf raises, single foot standing, and walking barefoot on the beach.  Also strengthening my hip flexors.  This work along with strides and hill charges (and consistent mileage with CVs and tempos) seem to be really making a difference.  The tendon soreness I used to have all the time in the inside of my ankles is gone.

My legs used to be a weak link in my running.  They would get tired before my lungs gave out and be along for the ride.  Now at the end of runs I can drive with my legs instead of slide shuffling.  I will definitely buy the Ghosts again when my current pair wear out and I will continue to slowly transition towards wearing neutral shoes more often.

I know you like the Go Runs.  Any other neutral shoes you (or anyone else) would like to recommend?

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Re: Shoe question

Post by dkggpeters » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:27 am

I really like the Virratas for longer runs.  I am good for up to 15 miles in the Goruns and then I really start to feel it while the Virratas I can do hard long runs in.  I have the first version and was able to pick up a bunch of pairs really cheap as they are discontinued and on to version 2.  I use them as my marathon race shoe as well.  I also really like the Kinvara 4's.  If you are looking for something with a higher heel then the Mizuno Precision 2's are nice but I believe they are discontinued.  You can still get them at Runners Warehouse.  I have also been using the Mizuno Sayonara but to be honest I have not warmed up to them yet.  Since I am in the tail end of my marathon training I am only using them on my recovery runs at the moment.  I have used the others before and since this is the first time with the Sayonara, I am being really cautious.  Go with what you know works.  I have heard good things about the Brooks PureFlow's but have never tried them.

Captainblood
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Re: Shoe question

Post by Captainblood » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:02 pm

Found the GoRun2s online for a little over $40.  Not sure if I can try on this version because the GoRun3s are out.  I am sure the local Skechers store has the latest version.  Any significant differences between the 2s and 3s?

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Re: Shoe question

Post by dkggpeters » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:45 pm

I have only tried the 2's.  If I like a shoe I am slow to the party on going to the newer version.

TexNav
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Re: Shoe question

Post by TexNav » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:33 pm

I'm semi-repeating myself from another thread, so apologies for boring anyone. I typically prefer as minimal as possible. But for awhile felt like I needed something with a little cushioning and was back in GT2000s. But as much as I like the protection of a softer shoe, my body ( and I have some minor quirks to my gait not really noticeable) doesn't like being told or directed how to land sometimes. About a month ago I was ready to go with a little less and got the new Ghosts. But after about 2-3 days after, I was back in my Lunar Racer 3s and have been since with no issues. Workouts are only 10 and 12 miles, with filler days of 6, so not huge volume. I seem to get periods of where I need lots of feedback from the ground, and that means more miniminal. If that means running a little slower on my easy days because of using less shoe, I am more than ok with it. I was going to go check out the GoRuns today too but was too lazy, likely will tomorrow. I'm interested now in looking at the Viratta's. (I've had some A4s from 2010 and I loved the upper. Wasn't a fan of the Kinvara 2 upper, but loved the sole. If only I could combine those two!)

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Re: Shoe question

Post by Bump14 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:21 am

A few weeks ago, I picked up a pair of the Gorun 2 & 3 and am alternating them now.  At this point, I prefer the 2.  The 3 seems a bit more narrow to me.  I do like them both and have done runs of 14 in each of them.  Also have done CV in both and they seem to be very versatile shoes. 

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Re: Shoe question

Post by runthe8 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:26 pm

My son likes the Virratas too and is on his third pair of them.  I found a pair online the other day for less than $50.  He has run in the Pure Grit and Puredrifts as well and likes them.

Captainblood
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Re: Shoe question

Post by Captainblood » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:03 pm

Tried on the Go Run 2 and the Go Speed 2 today.

Go Run 2 was surprisingly plush.  I don't think I could use this as a 5k racing shoe even though it is very light weight.  I just didn't have enough feel for the ground.  But I could see how this would be a great long run shoe.  Lots of cushion.

The Go Speed 2 is an ounce lighter and feels like it is barely there.  Really nice shoe for short races, but I think it would wear out pretty quickly and at $100 seems like a lot of money.  But I was impressed.

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Re: Shoe question

Post by Jim » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:35 am

I've been running for 33 years and for most of that time wore stability or motion control shoes on account of moderate-severe over-pronation in one leg.  And I was a heel striker.  As I get fitter and faster and my form improves (you CAN teach an old dog new tricks) I have been switching to more neutral shoes with less of a heel drop. Right now my weapon of choice is the adidas adizero Tempo: lightweight, ok cushioning and a bit of stability. I also like the Asics DS Trainers and I have a pair of Brooks Ghost that I like for longer runs. BTW the Ghost is a somewhat more stable shoe than your average neutral trainer. 

While I don't like orthotics I am a fan of stability shoes if you overpronate. I think neutral shoes can break down too much for a moderate overpronator and cause some Achilles problems, at least in my experience.  Just stay away from anything that is gonna be too stable such as a motion control shoe as these tend to inhibit your natural running motion.

Captainblood
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Re: Shoe question

Post by Captainblood » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:05 pm

After a few thousand miles I believe my muscles, ligaments, and tendons have strengthened enormously. No more post run soreness or lingering aches and pains. After a couple of months of using the Ghost 5s for harder workouts they are my new favorite shoes. I think I am ready for another neutral shoe to add to the mix a couple days a week. I plan on trying on some of your suggestions when I get the chance. Also in the hunt for a lighter racing flat.

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Re: Shoe question

Post by dilluh » Tue May 06, 2014 6:01 pm

If you’re looking for a good racing flat I’d recommend the Saucony A5 (or updated A6). The A5 has been a workhorse for me in recent 5k and 10k racing. It fits my foot snug but not tight and has a go fast feel in terms of being reasonably stiff flexion-wise and firm underfoot. The drop is 5mm (I think) which is just right in my opinion, it’s feather-light with minimal overlays and just has a nice no frills design. An added bonus is its surprising durability. The dense rubber outsole is showing almost no wear after almost 100 miles of racing and speed workouts which I think is quite good for a minimal racing flat. Perhaps another added bonus would be that the A5 can likely be had on the cheap as the new A6 model has recently arrived. I’ve heard good things about the A6 (small but appropriate updates) but not enough to justify the >$40 price difference between the two models at this point. I would probably feel comfortable putting them through a half marathon but no way for the full marathon.

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