Similarities & Differences: CV, Tempo, Threshold Paces

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jbarts
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Similarities & Differences: CV, Tempo, Threshold Paces

Post by jbarts » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:13 am

Hi Everyone,

I've been basing the training for my high school student athletes on Tom's philosophy since I started coaching six years ago. In a nutshell, it works very well!! This past track season I had Tom put together workouts for my top runner, who performed very well at the National level. I was confident I could get my athlete to a certain level, but wanted to make sure I didn't mess things up!!  :)

Usually, to keep things simple, we cycle through CV repeats and Tinman Tempo pace workouts, with a gradual increase in the amount of "faster" running, too. During this past season, Tom prescribed more repeats at threshold instead of tempo paces. He mentioned that he does this when a runner needs more anaerobic development. I know that all three are on the endurance/stamina side of things, but I want to understand them better while at the same time not getting too bogged down in minute details.

I know different coaches call different paces different things, but I'm curious as to the experiences of other coaches with balancing and blending these types of paces during the cross-country and track seasons: CV, tempo, and threshold. Any thoughts on this?
Formerly Swampscott XC (MA). Now Danvers MA XC/T&F

dilluh
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Re: Similarities & Differences: CV, Tempo, Threshold Paces

Post by dilluh » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:21 pm

I’m not a coach but I can tell you from experience that LT (threshold) works really well for me. Years ago I took a page from “malmo’s” (George Malley’s handle on LRC) book and began doing workouts that involved an hour of 6x(5 min “hard” + 5 min “easy”) or 3x(10 min “hard" + 10 min “easy”) after having built a baseline of endurance through easy tempo runs and long runs. I found these workouts to be fantastic all-around sessions. They hit a lot of the stamina range that distance runners are always striving to maintain but they also seemed to put a gentle load of pressure on the anaerobic system but not so much that it would affect consistency. I used this type of workout along with strides and long progression runs to run a surprisingly good time (for me) in my first half marathon.

Years down the road now, Tinman has prescribed sessions of long LT reps with jog recoveries. After doing a few of these sessions something clicked in my brain: this is exactly the feeling I was getting by doing those malmo hard/easy hour runs years ago. “Hard” for me back then was a reasonable approximation of LT without having a name for it yet. Hahaha. The only difference now is that the recovery is shorter (~2.5 min instead of 5 min) but it is jogging now instead of easy running. I’ve found these LT sessions to be incredibly invigorating. I feel relaxed and energized after a LT session - perhaps even more so than a Tinman tempo run. When you find things that you respond to that well, it’s good to take note because that’s a golden piece of information.

I haven’t used LT very much for 3k-5k racing so I can’t speak to its qualities as such but I would guess that LT workouts are stimulating for a broad range of race distances and energy systems.

Michigan Guy
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Re: Similarities & Differences: CV, Tempo, Threshold Paces

Post by Michigan Guy » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:15 am

Based on reading of Tinman's posts and comments over the past few years and studying the Tinman Running Calculator, this may be the description you're looking for:

CV = 90% VO2 max
Threshhold = 86% VO2 max
Tinman Tempo = 81% VO2 max
I will of course defer to Tinman about greater precision.

I've also seen Tinman describe Threshhold as very close or identical to RC (Respiratory Compensation) pace, which he has discussed a number of times in threads.

Tinman has also discussed MASS (maximum aerobic steady state), which he describes as barely slower than Threshhold.

He has called 75-90% of VO2 max as the Stamina Range.

The pace percentage calculations above seem to use the "Multiplication Method" rather than "Division Method".  These pace percentage calculation methods are described at this link:

http://www.runningwritings.com/2013/02/ ... .html#more

Tinman
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Re: Similarities & Differences: CV, Tempo, Threshold Paces

Post by Tinman » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:58 pm

In my opinion, the correct method is division because speed is inversely proportion to time; i.e. as speed increases, time decreases to travel a given distance, and vice verse. By the way, an inversely proportional condition (y=k/x) generates a parabolic design when two variables are graphed: the variables trend in a parabola.
Last edited by Tinman on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Run4ms
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Re: Similarities & Differences: CV, Tempo, Threshold Paces

Post by Run4ms » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:17 pm

[quote="Tinman"]
In my opinion, the correct method is division because speed is inversely proportion to time; i.e. as speed increases, time decreases to travel a given distance, and vice verse. By the way, an inversely proportional condition (y=k/x) generates a parabolic design when two variables are graphed: the variables trend in a parabola.
[/quote]

I teach high school mathematics and just got excited reading your response Tinman!

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