Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

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incarnadine
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Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:05 pm

Starting about five or six days ago, my legs and hips felt tight, and I felt like I was hitting the ground "heavy."

I immediately took a day off, then did 3 miles at recovery pace. Still felt tight, and my knees hurt in a general fashion. (That is, the outside of my left knee would hurt one day during running, then the next morning below the right knee would hurt and click when straightened upon waking up... different spots at different times.)

So the last six days have been:
Rest
3 miles easy
Rest
1 mile easy
Rest
3 miles easy

So that's failed to let me recover. My plan now is:

Day1: Complete rest
Day2: Complete rest
Day3: Pull-ups, push-ups
Day4: Lunges, straight leg extensions
Day5: Pull-ups, push-ups
Day6: Lunges, straight leg extensions
Day7: Easy run 1mi
Day8: Easy run 3mi
Day9: Complete rest

Then attempt to restart my normal running.

Crazy? I'm just so paranoid about hurting myself. I have no feeling at all for what's serious, what can be run through, or how to recover from injury. I don't really know how I hurt myself, I can only imagine that I was underslept and my long run and CV intervals pushed me over the edge.

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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by Tinman » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:31 pm

Be sure you are running in newer shoes.

Be sure you are not swinging your leg toward the midline of your body. (Straight ahead of your hips are what you need!)

Work out the knots (trigger points) in the muscles around your hips and glutes, as well as you lower legs and feet).
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Jim
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by Jim » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:30 am

Sounds like ITBS maybe? I have some IT band issues on my right leg, am getting massage on glute med, right thigh and piriformis this afternoon.  I find massage works wonders, as does foam rolling and rest or pool running.  And strengthening the weak areas like glutes.

incarnadine
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:10 am

Thanks for the replies, and thanks for the advice Tom. I think I allowed myself to get really run down and/or without noticing. The wife and babies and I went up to my in-laws in Maine this weekend, so I had some grandma help and got to sleep about 12 hours yesterday and just eat and eat and eat as much as possible. I was a little overly lean and quite exhausted.

The legs feel much better this morning. I'll try out the plan I outlined, to give myself extra rest and start on some exercises to strengthen my supporting muscles. I don't have any racing ambitions, so I can afford to be conservative.

The shoes are new, but I do tend to run along a single line (like I could run at full speed on a curb or railroad tie, as my feet land almost in the same spot). I was somehow under the impression that this was correct! I'll try to keep 'em separated.

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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by Tchuck » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:55 am

Absolutely work on strengthing glutes and hip external rotators (i.e. Hip Abduction). Walk sideways with bands.  Hamstrings are also important. "Dead Butt Syndrome" (Google it) is very common in runners and can definitely increase risk/cause of ITB syndrome, hip pain, low back pain, knee pain and other aches etc.  One leg squats are also excellent. You need to get the glutes - maximus, medius firing during your runs. This means more hip work and more hip flexor stretching.
Last edited by Tchuck on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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incarnadine
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:34 am

Which means I need to buy some 30lb dumbbells. $1 a pound seems so expensive for a dumb hunk of iron but it is what it is.

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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by dkggpeters » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:52 am

[quote="incarnadine"]
Which means I need to buy some 30lb dumbbells. $1 a pound seems so expensive for a dumb hunk of iron but it is what it is.
[/quote]

I would gladly spend a few hundred dollars on something that I know will keep me on the road and off the sidelines.  It is a one time investment that can be used forever.

incarnadine
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:37 pm

[quote="dkggpeters"]
[quote="incarnadine"]
Which means I need to buy some 30lb dumbbells. $1 a pound seems so expensive for a dumb hunk of iron but it is what it is.
[/quote]

I would gladly spend a few hundred dollars on something that I know will keep me on the road and off the sidelines.  It is a one time investment that can be used forever.
[/quote]

Of course! But are you married like I am?  ;D

dkggpeters
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by dkggpeters » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:06 pm

[quote="incarnadine"]
[quote="dkggpeters"]
[quote="incarnadine"]
Which means I need to buy some 30lb dumbbells. $1 a pound seems so expensive for a dumb hunk of iron but it is what it is.
[/quote]

I would gladly spend a few hundred dollars on something that I know will keep me on the road and off the sidelines.  It is a one time investment that can be used forever.
[/quote]

Of course! But are you married like I am?  ;D
[/quote]

Married, 2 kids, and a Cat.  Running is pretty much the only thing that I spend discretionary dollars on and I still hear about it when I buy a bunch of shoes but that is married life.

incarnadine
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:10 pm

[quote="dkggpeters"]
Married, 2 kids, and a Cat.  Running is pretty much the only thing that I spend discretionary dollars on and I still hear about it when I buy a bunch of shoes but that is married life.
[/quote]

Yep, that's me too! I've got a <redacted> year old wife, two year old boy, a one year old boy, a seven year old cat.

I can barely manage to convince myself it's OK to buy two pairs of shoes in a year, for $50 each. I'd really love to get a heavy rock in place of twin 30lbs weights, but rocks just aren't dense enough.

incarnadine
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:19 am

Did the myrtl routine, and some self-massage, then 3 miles of hilly running at regular pace, with short uphill faster 15 second pieces and occasional stops to do one-legged deadlift stretch of the hams. I think my hams are REALLY tight, because after the stretch everything felt peachy.

incarnadine
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:32 am

The knee feels about 90-95%! I did five miles last night at easy (8:10/mi) pace, concentrating on good knee position at footstrike and on keeping the strides under the hips rather than too much center-line.

My psoas are as tight as guitar strings. Very tight on hip extension, and knee flexion. Enormously so, sapping a lot of energy to work through a limited range of motion. I think that once I get the psoas and hams loosened up a bit, I'll be right as rain and ready to train again. The psoas, though, does seem to be really difficult to stretch and lengthen. Anyone have this problem?
Last edited by incarnadine on Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

incarnadine
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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:24 am

Myrtl and time is loosening up the knee and hip. Tonight I ran at 6:55/mi pace at the same perceived effort as 8:00/mi was three days ago when the hip/knee on the right were super tight. I did two or three minutes at the tail end of a 3.5 mile midnight run at 5k race pace (5:30/mi) and felt quite good.

Big relief that this is resolving, and I'm glad I took it easy the past two weeks.

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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by incarnadine » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:25 pm

Everything is 100% better. I'm concentrating on making sure strength is adequate, with stadium runs, stairs, eighted squats, one-legged squats, deadlift.

A strong butt and quads are the goal.

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Re: Knee Injury (again and again), advice?

Post by Captainblood » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:50 am

I thought it was worthwhile to resurrect this thread because it might be able to help someone.

Last Sunday I woke up and I could barely put any weight on my left leg. I was limping around like a cripple. After some basic stretching and walking I loosened up a bit, but I was still gimpy. Right on the corner of my upper bikini line (best I can describe it lol) was a sharp pain to the touch and when I would walk. I also had sore spots on the opposing side of the pain (my butt) and on the side of my hamstring (giant knots). I would feel the pain everywhere from my hip to my knee. Sometimes the quad. Other times the hamstring. Other times the pelvic region.

I experimented with different stretches and exercises and used manual massage and ice. I slowed down my runs and would actually feel better after I ran. But later (especially after sitting) I could barely walk. I discovered that air squats, legs swings, and massaging a sore spot in my butt would help things and even relieve the pain if I pressed it while walking or running.

A week later I was worried. I start searching the internet and suspect it is a tight psoas muscle. I decided to do some exercises and am on my side doing a leg lift when I hear a big pop in my pelvis. After doing 20 reps I stand up and feel normal again. I could walk without pain. The rest of the evening I did stretching and exercises targeting the psoas.

I woke up this morning for the first time and was able to walk without pain and great effort. My psoas is still tight. It took many years to create this problem and it will take awhile to sort this out. But I will attack this problem relentlessly and turn a weakness into a strength. I believe I have had a tight psoas for awhile and it has led to severe back pain and a shortened stride. For many years I had to lean more weight on one leg or it was uncomfortable.

The reason I am throwing this out there is that this came out of nowhere and I am sure many of you have tight psoas muscles. Do yourself a favor and do some simple stretches (look them up or I can help you). You will know if it is tight. Most of us sit too much and between that and running you have a recipe for a tight psoas muscle. Either do preventative exercises or your body will eventually prevent you from exercising.

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