It really works!!

Featuring TheRunZone?s resident coach Tinman. All participants are welcome to post and reply to topics in this section whether you?re looking for advice, or sharing your own coaching experience.

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Gabe1
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It really works!!

Post by Gabe1 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:58 am

I'm so happy today! After a year of struggling with my running and trying everything to get better, but I only got worse and went from 1:29 half marathon and a 39:33 10k last autumn, to a 1:32 half marathon and a 39:38 10k this May. Even though I was running 100 km per week and sometimes more, running really hard workouts with others etc.

So In June I decided to start with Tinman. Three months of training with around 60-75 km per week (almost half of what I did some weeks before) and boom, 38:45 10 k yesterday and I ran conservatively and also did a big workout just 48 hours before the race. I feel I can go much faster.

What can I say, it works! :D :D

Captainblood
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Re: It really works!!

Post by Captainblood » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:25 am

Awesome, Gabe!  Keep the ball rolling!  And keep us updated on your progress.

dkggpeters
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Re: It really works!!

Post by dkggpeters » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:05 am

Yes it does work.  Nice one and keep the ball rolling.

Gabe1
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Re: It really works!!

Post by Gabe1 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:30 am

Thanks guys, will keep you posted for sure! Have a good week-end!

BoilerTom90
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Re: It really works!!

Post by BoilerTom90 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:42 am

Congratulations! Keep the ball rolling and your times will continue to drop. 

dilluh
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Re: It really works!!

Post by dilluh » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:47 am

Congrats Gabe1! Keep at it! Amazing what happens when the workouts are under control, isn't it. =]

Overall mileage is a tricky thing - at least it was for me when I didn’t know much about training besides reading “Running With The Buffalos” or LRC message boards. Back then I though that if I could only rack up X number of miles per week, then I’d see a real change. I realize now how silly and one-sided that proposition was. The workouts matter, the progression of workouts matter, race specificity matters, recovery matters, knowing what type of runner you are matters. Yes, mileage matters too, but not at the expense of nearly everything else.

When I hit my 5k and 10k PRs this past spring my weekly mileage in the preceding months was moderate or even a touch below what I would normally be doing if left to my own devices and I had no races on the radar. Those PRs didn't require me to extend way outside of myself, they required appropriate workouts more than anything.

The way I’ve come to see weekly mileage is that it is partially a function of your current fitness, partially a function of how much your body can handle (body type, genetics, age, etc) and partially a function of the race distances you’re interested in. Ultimately though, I see it as the limit where you are able to hit all of the workouts, recover and continue to do that week after week after week without massive highs and lows.

Also, I’m starting to believe that high mileage serves multiple purposes depending on the runner and their event. For a track person, high mileage might allow them to do bigger volume workouts due to having a large aerobic capacity to dip into. Bigger workouts can then increase their stamina and result in better racing. For a marathoner, getting in those extra easy miles in the morning might be what is required to “set the table” for the afternoon session. Mileage without context is a crude way to go about distance running, though I know several people who still approach it that way.

FTIR
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Re: It really works!!

Post by FTIR » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:57 am

Mileage is also too often used to try to balance out a poor diet.

dilluh
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Re: It really works!!

Post by dilluh » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:40 pm

Like those that pull out the old adage, "if the fire is hot enough..." ? Hahaha. I never saw the logic in that.

If I were a sedentary person, I'm fairly sure I would feel a huge change in energy levels/health upon going from a diet of sugar, processed foods and low-quality carbs to a more balanced diet with whole foods. For an athlete, that argument would also hold if not be even more important.

dkggpeters
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Re: It really works!!

Post by dkggpeters » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:22 pm

[quote="FTIR"]
Mileage is also too often used to try to balance out a poor diet.
[/quote]

Hey, leave my ice cream out of this.

I do eat healthy but it is nice to know I can eat some bad food and not feel bad about it.

BoilerTom90
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Re: It really works!!

Post by BoilerTom90 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:03 pm

[quote="dkggpeters"]
[quote="FTIR"]
Mileage is also too often used to try to balance out a poor diet.
[/quote]

Hey, leave my ice cream out of this.

I do eat healthy but it is nice to know I can eat some bad food and not feel bad about it.
[/quote]

^^^^ this ^^^^

Gabe1
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Re: It really works!!

Post by Gabe1 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:48 pm

[quote="dilluh"]
Congrats Gabe1! Keep at it! Amazing what happens when the workouts are under control, isn't it. =]

Overall mileage is a tricky thing - at least it was for me when I didn’t know much about training besides reading “Running With The Buffalos” or LRC message boards. Back then I though that if I could only rack up X number of miles per week, then I’d see a real change. I realize now how silly and one-sided that proposition was. The workouts matter, the progression of workouts matter, race specificity matters, recovery matters, knowing what type of runner you are matters. Yes, mileage matters too, but not at the expense of nearly everything else.

When I hit my 5k and 10k PRs this past spring my weekly mileage in the preceding months was moderate or even a touch below what I would normally be doing if left to my own devices and I had no races on the radar. Those PRs didn't require me to extend way outside of myself, they required appropriate workouts more than anything.

The way I’ve come to see weekly mileage is that it is partially a function of your current fitness, partially a function of how much your body can handle (body type, genetics, age, etc) and partially a function of the race distances you’re interested in. Ultimately though, I see it as the limit where you are able to hit all of the workouts, recover and continue to do that week after week after week without massive highs and lows.

Also, I’m starting to believe that high mileage serves multiple purposes depending on the runner and their event. For a track person, high mileage might allow them to do bigger volume workouts due to having a large aerobic capacity to dip into. Bigger workouts can then increase their stamina and result in better racing. For a marathoner, getting in those extra easy miles in the morning might be what is required to “set the table” for the afternoon session. Mileage without context is a crude way to go about distance running, though I know several people who still approach it that way.
[/quote]

I think this is a very good text from you, Dilluh.

It's funny, because today I went for a 30 min very easy run and I suddenly remembered that this was the way my legs used to feel the day after every workout I use to do. Very heavy, struggeling to run at 6 min/km. I was basically hammering my workouts at an intensity that was pretty much equal to a 10k race, 2 times per week!

And on top of that I was hunting miles. Counting every meter. Even though my legs were completely dead after a 7x1000m @ 5k pace, I would go out and run 11-13 miles the day after, just to get in the miles. Because volume is so important right!?

Hireing Tinman is the best thing I've done.

dilluh
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Re: It really works!!

Post by dilluh » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:15 pm

Good lord: 7x1000 at 5k? That's like a K.Bekele level workout right there. And then getting in 11 miles the following day?

Whew...

I think pretty much anyone who isn't an elite athlete would suffer after a few weeks of that.

Captainblood
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Re: It really works!!

Post by Captainblood » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:22 pm

7 x 1000 at 5k pace is a bit nuts.  What was the recovery on that?

I might do 800s at that pace for 3 miles with close to equal time recovery.  But I definitely feel it in my legs for a couple of days.

Gabe1
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Re: It really works!!

Post by Gabe1 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:37 am

Yes its nuts, but that is what happens all the time when ambitious adults get together to run quality and think that its wise to race every workout. Some of the people in that group were even running faster than 5k-pace, breathing so hard you would think their lungs would burst.

The rest was usually 1 min standing rest, but in reality people were lying on the ground gasping for air and taking longer and longer recovery every interval.

The mentality in that group was that if you blow up during training you are one hell of runner, a really tough guy!

The tricky thing is that some people in that group actually got pretty good, training like this. I guess if you have the right genes you can handle super hero workouts. But for others, like me, its a complete disaster. But you look at these guys thinking: if they can do it, I should be able too!

Gabe1
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Re: It really works!!

Post by Gabe1 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:42 am

I enjoyed myself with looking back in my training calender, and here are a couple of workouts that we did with the running group:

2 km warm up
8 km @ half marathon pace
1 km @ easy/moderate pace
4 km 5 sec/km faster than half marathon pace
1 km @ easy/moderate pace
2 km 10 sec/km faster than half marathon pace
2 km cool down

Or this one:
3x2000 meters @ 5k race pace with 300 meter jog rest.

Or this one:
10 km @ treshold pace.

What do you guys think of those workouts? Maybe they could be something for Tinman's runners?  :P

No but seriously, so many people really think that more is always better, faster is always better, to run fast you have to train super hard etc. I would think that maybe 80% of all runners in the world think this way. I felt instinctively that this can't be correct, and that eventually led me here to the run zone.

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