Tinman's New Running Calculator

Featuring TheRunZone?s resident coach Tinman. All participants are welcome to post and reply to topics in this section whether you?re looking for advice, or sharing your own coaching experience.

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Irishrunner98
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Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Irishrunner98 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:48 am

Tinman-
I noticed that your new running calculator is now up and running on the Running PRs website.
Would you mind giving a quick explanation of the various training paces and how to use them? This would be especially helpful for the new paces eg. anaerobic endurance, speed.
Thanks

Tinman
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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Tinman » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:22 pm

Not sure what you want.

Off the top, anaerobic endurance is the ability to work intensely (above V.O2 max) by generating ATP (for work production) via anaerobic glycolysis, all the while buffering acidosis within and without the muscle fibers (cells). Basic physiology! In my calculator, it's roughly the pace that one can hold for 3-5 minutes in an all-out run.

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Irishrunner98
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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Irishrunner98 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:50 am

Tinman wrote: Off the top, anaerobic endurance is the ability to work intensely (above V.O2 max) by generating ATP (for work production) via anaerobic glycolysis, all the while buffering acidosis within and without the muscle fibers (cells). Basic physiology! In my calculator, it's roughly the pace that one can hold for 3-5 minutes in an all-out run.
I was looking for a brief explanation of the terms that didn't appear on your last calculator, namely anaerobic endurance, anaerobic power, speed endurance and speed. The explanation above for anaerobic endurance was perfect.
I also wanted a short explanation on how to fit these paces into a training program.
Sorry for the lack of clarity!

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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Tinman » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:58 pm

The tone of communication matters to me. And, because I'm under no obligation to share what I know, I ask that people request information rather than demand it of me. Thank you.
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Irishrunner98
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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Irishrunner98 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:29 am

Sorry if I came across as demanding.
I was just trying to clarify my earlier question.
Thanks for your response.

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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by runthe8 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:16 am

Irish- I didn't think you sounded demanding at all. Tom, I too am curious about the new paces and how to incorporate them into training, keeping in mind I coach other kids besides Drew, including some who are more focused on the 800/1600 who don't have the mileage background or natural endurance capacity that he has. Would love to hear more details when you have the time. Thanks!

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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Tinman » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:32 pm

Alright, I'll work on an answer when I have some time and energy.

Background: I've been very overloaded at work lately because several teachers and the vice principal have implored me to help them solve problems. They came to me for solutions because the word is out that the new guy can write and knows Excel fairly well. I've spent probably 6 hours this week alone writing "goals" for teachers who are required to submit a short essay for their annual evaluation, and 10-12 hours on solving Excel needs for tracking/sorting/conditional formatting a variety of programs that school operates using federal moneys. It's funny that the actual IT person isn't the one the administrators go to for solutions, isn't it?

Long story short, I have been tired (and sick) this week. I responded to the "request" for my time and energy to write descriptions of my online running calculator, and I was not as cordial as I should have been. My apology for the response.

An aside: I am secretly annoyed that people in the past have read my posts and then make money by writing essays for running magazines or their websites or books based on my ideas. In truth, I have a lifelong annoyance about people "copying" my ideas, going back to primary school even. The lists of people plagiarizing my work is long, and maybe it's my fault for allowing it to happen; in some cases I trusted too much or was unaware that others were looking over my shoulder. That is my issue, not others, so I am sorry for being rude in my response of late.

As an example, during one university course (philosophy) a few years ago, the Dean's accused me of cheating on the mid-term exam. She demanded that I explain to her why I plagiarized on the mid-term exam, as she put it. It turns our that someone near me, during the exam, was looking over my shoulder, or maybe more than one person, I don't know, and copying my answers on the multiple choice portion of the test. I am left-handed, so I had to fill in bubbles on the score sheet by turning the answer sheet at an angle in a way that opens me up for others to view the sheet. (It's much harder for a leftie to fill in those darn bubbles!) It was a long test of perhaps 125 questions, and the final essay question was the only part that wasn't multiple choice.

The Dean simply did not believe my reply about not cheating. Because it was a serious problem, I asked her to call my philosophy professor and have her quiz me on the spot. (The professor was teaching for another 30 or 40 minutes, so I had to wait in a chair by her secretary until the professor could be summoned and attend the meeting. It was nerve-racking to sit in the waiting area, and I was fuming mad, confused, frustrated, and worried all at once.)

Later, the professor walked in and waived to me as she passed by me. Five minutes later, I was summoned to the Dean's office. Vry nervous and angry, I sat between the Dean and my professor. The Dean said that I had scored 96% of the exam, and it was probable that I had used a crib sheet or copied from others, given my score. The professor, who still believed me, asked me three questions on the spot, and I passed in her opinion, without prejudice. Even so, for days I was ticked off about the whole ordeal. (It just reinforced one more time that someone else had sponged off my work.)

Later that semester, a hand-written note from my professor arrived at my apartment. She stated that I was an exceptional student and wanted me to consider being a philosophy major. However, I passed on the opportunity, since my passion was exercise science/physiology.

Just before Thanksgiving break, that about 7 people from our class, as far as I could discern, were expelled from school, or at least that class: people who normally sat near me were suspiciously absent thereafter. Anyway, to this day, I am annoyed when I think others are profiting from my hard-earned work. I am sure others, especially at their work-sites, have experienced similar situations.

Now: Regarding defining and describing the terms/concepts shown on my online calculator page on my website (www.runningprs.com), I'll consider working on it. Please give me some time to rejuvenate my energy before I address the request.

Thanks,

Tom
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Irishrunner98
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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Irishrunner98 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:20 pm

I'm in no hurry for an answer, after all getting faster isn't about days or even weeks but months of consistent work!
I'm sorry about your issues with plagiarism. I just want to say that I'm definitely not one of those people. I don't know of any running magazines that would accept an essay on training from a 17 year old!
Thanks again for your response and time.

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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Tinman » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:41 pm

I will attend to the question as time permits this week.
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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Tinman » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:47 pm

Definitions of Terms for The Running Calculator
http://www.runningprs.com
Written by Thomas Schwartz, M.S., M.B.A.
(Tinman Endurance Coaching, LLC, 2/25/2015)
runfastcoach@gmail.com
(All Right Reserved)

Anaerobic Endurance: A performance intensity that can be maintained typically for 2.33-4.66 minutes of running at full effort. Training at this intensity improves the rate of energy (ATP) production while using glycolysis and the ability to delay muscle fatigue by buffering cellular acidosis. Workouts using this training intensity typically include repetitions that last 30-60 seconds for novice runners and up to 120 seconds for very fit, experienced runners/sprinters. It important to use sufficient, active recovery time to reduce fatigue, so that several reps can be run before fatigue slows the sustainable pace.

Anaerobic Power: A performance intensity that can be maintained typically for 70-140 seconds of running at full effort. Training at this intensity improves the maximum rate of energy (ATP) production while using glycolysis and the ability to withstand several muscle fatigue by buffering cellular acidosis. Workouts using this training intensity typically include repetitions that last 15-45 seconds for novice runners and up to 60 seconds for very fit, experienced runners/sprinters. It is important to use sufficient, active recovery time, so that several reps can be run before fatigue slows the sustainable pace.

Speed Endurance: A performance intensity that can be maintained typically for 35-70 seconds of running at full effort. Training at this intensity improves the maximum rate of energy (ATP) production while using both creatine phosphate and anaerobic glycolysis in the cytoplasm of a muscle cell (fiber). Workouts using this training intensity elevate the ability to hold a very high running speed as fatigue accumulates. Workouts typically include repetitions that last 7.5 to 22.5 seconds for novice runners and up to 30 seconds for very fit, experienced runners/sprinters. It is important to use sufficient, active recovery time, so that several reps can be run before fatigue slows the sustainable pace.

Speed: A performance intensity that can be maintained typically for 17.5-35 seconds of running at full effort. Training at this intensity maximizes top-end speed development. It's possible to run faster, but there is little guarantee that more speed will be developed. Furthermore, injury rates tend to increase when running faster than this speed. Training at this intensity elevates the maximum rate of energy (ATP) production while using creatine phosphate; training at this intensity also elevates capacity of the anaerobic glycolysis (enzymatic) pathway, located in the cytoplasm of a muscle cell (fiber). Workouts using this training intensity rely heavily on neuro-muscular efficiency and muscle strength. Workouts typically include repetitions that last 5 to 15 seconds for novice runners and up to 20 seconds for highly fit, experienced runners/sprinters. It is important to use sufficient, active recovery time, so that several reps can be run before fatigue slows the sustainable pace.
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Irishrunner98
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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Irishrunner98 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:59 pm

Thanks very much for that detailed explanation. I appreciate you giving up your limited time to answer my question.

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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Tinman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:16 pm

Welcome, Irish!
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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by tcl » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:33 pm

It seems CV is a great all-purpose training pace, useful for every race distance from 800m to Marathon. Not a magic bullet, of course, but a good go-to intensity (something a guy like Ovett and a guy like Lopes might have in common). I wonder if there's a corresponding zone in the fast end of things--perhaps one of these four paces that, whatever else is going on, a distance runner might always want to keep in the mix. Obviously these paces aren't the main focus of distance/mid-distance training--but that might arguably make it even more important for us to get the small amount we do right.

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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Clell » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:59 am

As an example: Let's say a 40 year old who has began running again after 10 or more years. He has been running for 18 months, and has run 25-35 miles per week for at least 1 year. How much time would need to be run at these 4 types of running in order for the muscles/nerves to adapt so that he can run as fast as is possible for him?

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Re: Tinman's New Running Calculator

Post by Tinman » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:30 pm

tcl -

I have considered my CV pace, since 1989, the golden intensity for training all events from the 800m to the marathon. I even believe that 400m runners and ultra-marathon runners greatly benefit from forms of CV training.

Back in the 1980s, when I was a University student, I observed the 400m and 800m runners on our team who did not run on the cross country team. Most 800m runners did run on the team, but about 3-4 per school year chose to run with the sprints coach in the fall. Much of the training the sprints coach used at that time was based more on stamina training, some technical skills training, and foundational strength (weight room) training. The year that I observed the most was my sophomore year in college. My roommate, who was a graduate student in sports science (Human Performance) trained the sprinters in the fall. He called them "Sand Baggers," which I also thought was a funny term. He was a math teacher in Arizona in years past, and he coached the mid-distance and distance runners at his high school. His background was in distance running, as his event in high school was the 3200m and he ran both cross-country and track at Simpson College. He really believed in the value of building a good base - for all events, not just distance runners. And, from listening to his comments, he really thought that the best sprinters at his former college (Simpson) and at his high school in Arizona had run cross-country as conditioning. He noticed that those guys didn't get injured nearly as much as the guys who had no "base" from cross-country. And, he said the sprinters who ran cross-country seemed to keep improving during the entire track season, while the guys who had no "base" in the fall (autumn) seemed to stall in their progress. I really locked on to my roommates comments because it coincided exactly with the philosophy of the sprint coach at Southern IL University - Carbondale, the institution which I attended the previous year.

SIU-C athletes sprinters were very strong! In fact, the year before I arrived at SIU-C, they set the NCAA Division I record for the 4 x 400m (I think it was 3:01), and both Elvis Forde (the sprints coach as a graduate assistant) and Michael Franks were world class 400m runners. Michael was actually #1 in the world (low 44s seconds). Elvis told me a lot about the value of endurance training for sprinters, and both he and Michael ran 3 miles at a good clip every morning 5-6 days per week, in addition to their workouts in the afternoon. All fall (autumn) and early winter the sprinters at SIU ran loads of 200s to 600s at what was a clearly an aerobic intensity.

On more than one occasion, I asked Elvis about the pace/speed but he didn't really have a specific intensity in-mind, but he did say that he would assign a large number of intervals with short recoveries and so that sprinters would automatically learn to run much slower than a "hard" effort in order to complete the entire set. For example, he might assign 20 x 200m with a 1 minute recovery walk. The sprinters, whom I watched on the track, ran about 36 seconds in the middle of autumn and just before winter break they were near 33 or 32 seconds. Those were guys who were probably near 23-22 seconds for 200m in the autumn, and by spring they were closer to the upper 20 point to upper 21 point for 200m. I used to eat lunch with one of the sprinters, who really was a 400m hurdler from Ireland, and he'd tell me that he thought the 20 x 200m workout with just a minute walk was harder than the 6 x 200m workouts at 23-25 seconds that they did in the spring with a 3 minute recovery.

Part of my point of this long post is to suggest that the value of CV or CV type training is fundamental, in my view, to effective training for all track events and even up to or perhaps beyond the marathon. If you look for success stories in running ,from the sprints to the marathon, at least, you'll find that many of the best of all time did loads of work that was not fast but was near the overall intensity of CV. I believe that top runners and coaches understand that you can gain a lot of fitness from working hard enough but not too hard.

You have to either learn the hard way, as an athlete or coach, often that "hard" training is not long-term training. You can't stay injury free if you train hard for weeks on-end. It's just impossible. You can, however, train many weeks in a row if you train at the upper end of moderate or lower end of hard. I think of it was CV training. Regardless of how you measure it, effective training over the longer term teds to fall in the 75-90% effort range. If you go above 90%, you can't do that for several weeks without injury, untimely illness, or mental exhaustion. If you train below 75%, you can gain fitness, but you will still not quite have the foundation that you need to compete well. It's fine to train below 75% for key workouts, but you will either have a huge shock to your body when you race or you will need to run several races to be near your best condition.

I have some training schedules to write, so I have to get going.

I'll close this now.

Take care,

Tinman
Thomas Schwartz
www.runfastcoach@gmail.com
www.runningprs.com
Tinman
(coaching available)
Inquire via email:
runfastcoach@gmail.com

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