Article to read!

Featuring TheRunZone?s resident coach Tinman. All participants are welcome to post and reply to topics in this section whether you?re looking for advice, or sharing your own coaching experience.

Moderators: Moderator, Global Moderator

Post Reply
Tinman
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4285
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 am

Article to read!

Post by Tinman » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:45 pm

Tinman
(coaching available)
Inquire via email:
runfastcoach@gmail.com

BoilerTom90
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:21 am
Location: Arlington Heights, IL

Re: Article to read!

Post by BoilerTom90 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:30 pm

Yes, indeed!

TexNav
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by TexNav » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:48 pm

I read that earlier, and I certainly hope that they are doing things the right way.

Tinman
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4285
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 am

Re: Article to read!

Post by Tinman » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:04 pm

I just watched the 2nd half of the show, and now will watch the whole thing on tape.

To watch the BBC in the USA, I had to purchase an IP address from the UK via IPVANISH on my iPhone. It's a small cost. Then, I was able to watch the
BBC ("Panorama") show. Very good show!
Tinman
(coaching available)
Inquire via email:
runfastcoach@gmail.com

dilluh
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by dilluh » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:59 pm

I figured something like this would surface eventually. Unfortunately it appears that there is no hard evidence for actual doping violations - just a lot of gray area drugs and TUEs to the max.

The fact that Rupp has been on prednisone since HS is a testament to his commitment to Salazar and NOP. I was on prednisone for a few years as part of chemotherapy treatment as a 16 year old and man, that stuff will drive you nuts. Heightened irritability and insomnia were the major side effects among a laundry list of minor ones.

Spider Man
Jr. Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:59 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by Spider Man » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:50 am

I guess that the article & the TV programme confirm much of what many of us have suspected for quite a while.

Here in the UK the Salazar story is significant as Mo Farah is probably our most visible athlete in terms of public perception. ... Moreover, our National Federation (British Athletics ... UKA as was) uses Salazar as a "consultant" ... & there have been disturbing stories of athletes funded by the National Federation encouraged to take Thyroxine (under TUE pretences) when not medically required. ... Some of our leading senior athletes have indeed come out publicly to decry this ...

see: http://www.itv.com/news/2015-04-22/the- ... be-banned/ ...

I hope that British athletics will now seriously reconsider their links with Salazar.

I believe that no clean athlete or parent of young athletes would or should want to be associated with the NOP (& Salazar in particular) ... Steve Magness & Kara Goucher have been particularly brave in speaking out ... I hope their bravery is rewarded .

BoilerTom90
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:21 am
Location: Arlington Heights, IL

Re: Article to read!

Post by BoilerTom90 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:58 am

I am waiting for a link between this information and Mary Cain "going home"
http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runne ... ack-season

HRE
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:06 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by HRE » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:47 am

Well said, Spider Man!

dilluh
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by dilluh » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:54 am

BoilerTom90 wrote:I am waiting for a link between this information and Mary Cain "going home"
http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runne ... ack-season
I wondered the same thing. I also thought I heard that Jordan Hasay was injured and took some time off in Park City, UT recently. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

dilluh
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by dilluh » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:13 pm

Interesting interview of a former coach who worked with Salazar:

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runne ... llegations

I think an interesting question to be asked is: Should it be legal to grant therapeutic use exemption (TUE) to athletes who do not have a significant medical condition that requires such therapy? The above article makes it sound like it is quite easy to get any athlete to express symptoms that would allow a doctor to legitimately write a prescription for an inhaler (which often contains stimulants).

Being a fan of baseball I often think about the gray areas in that sport. During Hank Aaron's time it was common knowledge that he and many other baseball players were using amphetamines (or 'greenies') to get through the gruelingly long seasons. Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa took PEDs in the 90s for a not totally dissimilar purpose. The former is in the hall of fame while the latter never will be. Can we say there's a significant difference in their actions?

It's way off topic but I also wonder about advanced medical procedures such as Tommy John surgery where a ligament is taken from a different part of the body and placed into the throwing elbow of a pitcher who severely damaged the original ligament. Within 12-16 months they are often able to pitch the same if not better than with the original ligament. 50 years ago this was not an option and I am certain many pitcher's careers in the sport were cut short because of it. If they had the opportunity for the surgery perhaps they too could've been in the hall of fame with more years added to their careers. Professional golfers can get corrective laser surgery to give better than 20/20 vision. The list will continue to get longer...

Where does a line get drawn? Some would argue that there should be no TUEs at all. Do you just naturally have funky thyroid or testosterone levels? Tough cookie - that's the luck of the genetic draw. Either deal with it and compete the best you can or move on.

No easy answers it seems.

Spider Man
Jr. Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:59 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by Spider Man » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:38 pm

I think that it's very unlikely that a "smoking gun" will be found ...

IF Salazar is actually encouraging his athletes to micro-dose on PEDs to stay within the WADA parameters, then no clear evidence of having "broken the rules" is likely to emerge ... I think it will come down to whether the athletics community at large (& the court of public opinion) accept that the flagrant abuse of the TUE system by Salazar marks out Salazar (& NOP) as being unethical & beyond the pale ...

At the end of the day, whether we consider Salazar/NOP as "clean" or "dirty" for me comes down to a question of character ...
& the following story certainly does not reflect well on Salazar's character ...

http://deadspin.com/when-a-famed-nike-c ... 1538116204

dilluh
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Article to read!

Post by dilluh » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:16 pm

Spider Man wrote:I think that it's very unlikely that a "smoking gun" will be found ...

IF Salazar is actually encouraging his athletes to micro-dose on PEDs to stay within the WADA parameters, then no clear evidence of having "broken the rules" is likely to emerge ... I think it will come down to whether the athletics community at large (& the court of public opinion) accept that the flagrant abuse of the TUE system by Salazar marks out Salazar (& NOP) as being unethical & beyond the pale ...

At the end of the day, whether we consider Salazar/NOP as "clean" or "dirty" for me comes down to a question of character ...
& the following story certainly does not reflect well on Salazar's character ...

http://deadspin.com/when-a-famed-nike-c ... 1538116204
I think you're right. Salazar will likely give a statement claiming that he in no way has violated any rules, no one has failed a test, etc and that will pretty much be that. What people think of him in terms of ethical behavior and character is another matter. Unfortunately, egomaniacs ultimately don't care much about such matters as long as they win.

Tinman
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4285
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 am

Re: Article to read!

Post by Tinman » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:37 am

This is not over!

I posit that other people will come forward and share information, now that the Gouchers, Magness, Stiner, and Kupcheck have come forward. I know that David Epstein has talked to several people who had information, but most were too scared of Nike to go on-the-record.

Furthermore, WADA will likely investigate the allegations. Because the situation is now worldwide news, WADA will reach out to USADA, people who were on-the-record, and seek more information. Further, they have a foundation to pursue acquisition of information regarding violations of anti-doping assistance rules - the IV drip, for example, that Kara Goucher mentioned, is a violation if his coach told him how to induce the medical personnel to administer the Drip at the World Championships. If true, that's at-minimum a 2-year ban by the coach. At most, it's a lifetime ban (doubtful that could happen, but it's possible if there is a number of other violations WADA uncovers, such as use of certain medicines without legitimate TUE, etc.)

And, let's not forget that David Epstein and Mark Daly are not the only investigative reporters out there who are hungry to generate a big story. The door is now wide open! I know of at least one (other) major news agency who is presently pursuing this PEDS situation with NOP further. I can say with confidence the organization plays to win! They are serious and they have resources. I am very excited to see this organization go after the truth, further!

I have told my family and close friends that I think Nike will have no choice, at some point, to throw Salazar under the bus. Nike cannot afford to lose credibility, and hence market share, from a business standpoint. Just as they had to let Lance Armstrong go, they will have to let Salazar go. I just cannot see how Nike will fight to the bitter end, for they will drag the company down in the process, even if they "win." Nike shareholders are not going to be happy about the loss of value that the media situation will create! The sooner Nike cuts ties with Salazar the better. If I were the CEO of Nike, I'd gather my executives and lawyers together, weekly, and hash out a legitimate strategy of dealing with the problem. I see no way that covering up for anything close to unethical practices is going to be perceived by the public, and especially the shareholders, as anything other than bad business.

As I see it, as one who had a Masters degree in Business Administration and who had studied many aspects of marketing, organizational management, and leadership, the smart strategy is revealing what you know to the public, before the fire is too big to control, as an organization. I estimate that Nike leaders were convinced by Mr. Salazar that the practices and methods he used were legitimate, though pushing the edge technologically.

If I were leading Nike, I would put into play an internal investigation, perhaps hiring an independent investigation team, and then make decisions based on the evidence gathered by that team. To me, it's a matter of saving the public image of the company, and that doesn't involve covering up information or delaying the process. The sooner the public image is bandaged the better!

Tinman
Tom Schwartz
http://www.runningprs.com
runfastcoach@gmail.com
(coaching available)
Tinman
(coaching available)
Inquire via email:
runfastcoach@gmail.com

Post Reply