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Coming back to running-looking for advice

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:02 pm
by wingsof5
Hello all,

I am a little new to this forum but I have had the chance to read a bit and it seems very informative.  I am a little older (42) year old runner who  stopped racing and training in 2001 after a knee surgery and then my wife and I created 3 beautiful little girls that have taken a serious portion of my time since then.  All in all I kinda of lost the drive to compete.  The drive is back and I  want to compete again and I feel like I have some gas in the tank. 

I used to run about 40 miles a week give or take and always did fast, short intervals.  I used to do workouts like 12 x 400 in sub 70 or 6  800 in 2:30 usually with a longer recovery.  My long runs were probably too fast as I would never run over about 7 min pace and often was cranking sub 6:00 by the end.    I never really did tempo runs as both my high school and college coaches were from the generation where tempo runs where not even invented.  Back in the old days I was a low 15's and high 32's in the 5 and 10K.  I even ran a  1:13 half without ever running over 9 miles in training ( the same summer I ran a 4:26 road mile). 

My question is related as to how to approach my training now,  I am uninterested in really fast speedwork, it feels crappy!  I've tried it at my local track and honestly I don't enjoy it any more. I did some low 70's quarters and wanted to lay down on the track and call a ride to come scrap me off.  The advice part of this is that I would love to employ a less painful method of training and have gathered a lot from reading posts on this site.  I believe I can be very competitive in my area as a masters runner, recently I ran an 8 mile training run and felt really good, I hit the last 4 miles in about 25 minutes making me feel positive that I can run faster.  I really want to focus on and run a good 10k.  I would like to  use the paces on the chart but honestly unsure about what I could run, I assume maybe something between 18-19 minute 5k right now. I also wonder about the CV workout I see 1k's are really popular but I would really love to stay off the track as I live near a beautiful 15 mile combo asphalt/wooded trail.  How do fartleks transfer?  like 5 minute repeats on the trail?  My lack of 10 year racing make mes really question my pace when I do these.  Finally about the tempo runs, I have never really been good at them and always run too fast.  In the late 90's when they became in vogue I always raced them more than run them correctly. Any advice on how to run them right?  Any advice at all is valued and appreciated.  My 10k is Oct 7th.


Re: Coming back to running-looking for advice

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:28 pm
by ap4305

No need to hit the track for now.  Fartlek can easily be done according to time and effort.  Typical equivalent for CV workout would be 3minutes CV/1min easy.  Can mix and match different work:rest combos based on goal of the session.  Actual paces are less important than the perception of quality effort.  If in doubt, start slower and finish faster with some remaining in the tank. 

In your case, paces might be misleading, since you might progress rather quickly from 19 min 5k fitness.  Probably better to stick with effort-based until things level out. 

Of course, you could also do a true "speed PLAY" where you pick random targets to run toward, which is how the fartlek got started.   

Tempos: could do them in progression form...start easy and pick up until holding a fast but controlled sustained pace.  Could also use heart rate monitor if you feel that far off, but as you probably know, HR monitoring has its own set of drawbacks. 

Re: Coming back to running-looking for advice

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:05 pm
by wingsof5

Thanks for the response, I thought about a heart rate monitor when I owned one years ago I didn't use it and honestly ignored the HR when I did.  I appreciate your comments, I was actually going to run 4-5 mins at Cv pace this week with 3 min recoveries so you kind of confirmed that for me.

A big question I have is about LT pace.  In the pace chart I printed off from the menu above I see there is an LT pace chart which is quicker than CV pace.  When does this type of philosophy incorporate LT workouts and how? I think I am going to err on the side of caution with the tempo pace since I am going to increase my mileage from 30per week to 50-60 (slowly). In looking at the chart I also am obviously running my daily runs too fast but this has always been an issue for me my whole running life.  I did run today at an 8:00 pace which is a good 45secs to minute slower than I usually do. 

Again appreciate the advice,  looking forward to running a good 10k in the next18 months or so.

Re: Coming back to running-looking for advice

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:21 pm
by ap4305
Use the calculator at Tom's other site,  That's more updated and you can dial in more precisely.

Some GENERAL pace guidelines:
LT pace...roughly one hour race pace.
CV pace...8k-10k pace roughly
Tempo...around marathon pace (again, broad estimate). 

Under this system, your continuous tempos would mostly be around marathon pace +/-10 sec mile.  If not sure about an appropriate tempo pace, start with 5k pace + 60 seconds per mile.  LT pace we generally use for mile repeats with short rest (60-90 sec), but that can change during a race specific prep phase. 

LT pace is one of several paces along the continuum from CV pace through slightly slower than tempo pace used to facilitate stamina development. 

Re: Coming back to running-looking for advice

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:42 pm
by wingsof5

Again thank you very much I do appreciate the advice and guidance. 

Re: Coming back to running-looking for advice

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:43 pm
by wingsof5
I ran my first 40 mile week in over 11 years. Granted I ran slower than usual and I used the treadmill 3/6 days to soften the impact on my R knee but all in all I feel pretty good about it and hope to continue the momentum.  I ran 9 today for day one of this week so far so good.