Running Times Training Article

A place for participants to share personal training logs, as well as training plans and ideas. These discussions are open to runners of ALL levels.

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ap4305
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Re: Running Times Training Article

Post by ap4305 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:48 pm

[quote="distcoach"]
little different than Tinman training!
[/quote]

On paper yes.  But although they put far different workouts on paper, probably more similarities than differences in the key principles.  Stillwater chooses to emphasize near top-end speed, while Tinman emphasizes cruising speed/stamina.  I see more in common than different, even though they diverge quite significantly when the pen hits the paper..but both are far removed from the common HS/college diet of "tolerance" and "suffering" training.  The Stillwater kids run fast and hard in workouts, but it appears they aren't straining through their sessions like the kids who live off 10 x 400 or 5 x 800 with short rest every week (on top of racing).  There's a place for everything, just a matter of where and when and why and how much.   

Interesting in the article that he mentions "Lydiard-style" training as being marathon-centric (the former way he trained his athletes), but many people forget Lydiard encouraged athletes to develop top-end sprinting as well (high velocity, long rest).  So in reality their workouts do have a Lydiard component, just not the most commonly associated aspect (slow distance).  Train and learn to relax at a wide range of fast speeds...that's a key essence of Lydiard as much as jogging and mileage!

"I don’t think speed and technique are being worked on sufficiently; there has to be concentration on developing it throughout the whole year (I’m talking about sprinting speed, not from anaerobic development) [2]. I watched the young women in a race, a half marathon, a couple of days ago, and I hardly saw one
who has been taught to run properly. All were running tight around the shoulders, throwing their arms around. This type of flawed technique leads to wasted effort and loss of forward momentum. You must learn to relax, which is a key to good running, and this fundamental has been overlooked"
(Lydiard 1990)
Last edited by ap4305 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jim
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Re: Running Times Training Article

Post by Jim » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:38 pm

Depends on your age and experience.  I'm 47 and have been running 31 years and I know enough to stay away from a load of really fast training.  A pile of easy mileage, long runs, Tinman prescribed tempos and a touch of speed works for us old guys.

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Re: Running Times Training Article

Post by ap4305 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:11 pm

[quote="Jim"]
Depends on your age and experience.  I'm 47 and have been running 31 years and I know enough to stay away from a load of really fast training.  A pile of easy mileage, long runs, Tinman prescribed tempos and a touch of speed works for us old guys.
[/quote]

Great point.  Any sound training model places the individual athlete's needs, limitations, and present abilities above all else.

jbarts
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Re: Running Times Training Article

Post by jbarts » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:06 pm

The training I set up for my high school student-athletes is firmly based in Tinman's philosophy, and it has worked quite well for us. I had the opportunity to see a few presentations by Scott Christensen at the MSTCA Coaches Clinic here in MA at the start of the outdoor season, and I spoke with Scott about my top guy who had just set a PR of 9:18 for two miles at Indoor Nationals. Scott is clearly very science based, and even has easy days timed down to the exact second per mile. He has placed workouts where they are in his cycles for a reason, but I will agree that if I were to go right to that model it would be a little too intense. I'm more of a "feel it out" type guy, giving ranges on paces.

Scott provided some sound advice and I used some of it this outdoor with my top two boys. One example: 6 x 200 @ "Special Endurance 2" (which he gives you a calculation for), adjusted slightly by me based on wind and recent training. The recovery was 8:00 between each...so my top guy ran a mile between each. Scott doesn't specify whether or not to run the recoveries, but this made it into a "big workout" and my boy hit all the times. He is racing better than ever, but times don't indicate it due to very hot weather. We're hoping for a big PR at Nationals, but it will likely by hot there...but if it's under 95 and not humid it will be better than it was at our All-State meets!

So, I guess my point is...Tinman's philosophy of stamina, etc. is my backbone for our training plans, and I will never change that. But there are ways to add things into the program while still keeping your philosophy sound. Does that make sense?
Formerly Swampscott XC (MA). Now Danvers MA XC/T&F

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Re: Running Times Training Article

Post by Tinman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:07 pm

It is important to take a big picture perspective. Many very fast runners enterthat high school program. They have amazing credentials as middle schoolers. For example, their freshman who broke my minutes for 2 miles this year ranfour minutes and 26 seconds and nine minutes and 53 seconds for the 1600 m and 3200 m as an eighth grader last year. It is not uncommon in that program to have multiple sub-5 minute milers coming in as freshmen. They have an amazing feeder program!
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