Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k - tweaked speedwork

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MothAudio

Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k - tweaked speedwork

Post by MothAudio » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:44 am

tweaked workouts - dialing back the pace and volume of speedwork in the front half.

56 YO Master runner w/30 years of running experience looking to crack the sub-20 5k barrier again [last time was 19:45 / 1995]. Current PB is 20:39 [11/11]. Best recent time; 21:11 [11/12]. Set new Master HM PB [1:36:33] in October so there's hope I can still run faster [Master] times.

I've averaged 3300 mpy the last four years. I'm averaging 69 mpw this year. Endurance and stamina is my strength, speed my weakness. Over the last year or so have been lengthening my specific endurance workouts and as you can see that continues here. Since the beginning of December I've by-passed a traditional base phase since I feel I've reached the point of diminishing returns as my aerobic house is in order. Instead focused on what I call my "Speed Base" where I've been working on my raw speed / neuromuscular development with bi-weekly XT [weights / plyometrics]. I begin my 12 week 5k schedule in two weeks, feel free to comment. TIA.

Here's a sample of what a "Speed Base" week consists of...

Week 2: 72 miles
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 7 miles 3x [5x400m] @ 8.3 mph w/40 sec. squat jump super set recovery / 4:00 recovery between sets + 3xstrides @ 9.0 - 10.0 mph + 4x15 sec. hill sprints @ 9.0 - 9.4 mph 8% grade A.M. / 2 miles @ 4.0 - 6. 0 mph XT reverse leg press 3x [15x150 lbs w/200m @ 10.0 mph during 5:00 recovery] / butt kicks / skips / bounding / hip abduction / fast feet / calf raises - unweighted  P.M.
Wednesday: 8 miles 1:15:04 - 9:23 avg. pace - easy. Legs were DEAD.
Thursday: 3 miles @ 4.0 - 4.6 mph - recovery
Friday: 8 miles 8x15 sec. hill sprints @ 9.0 - 9.4 mph 8% grade 2:00 recovery jog + 2x2000m @ 7.7 mph w/2:00 recovery @ 4.8 mph A.M. / 8 miles @ 4.0 - 7.4 mph - moderate 3 miles @ 7.4 mph P.M.
Saturday: 16 miles 2:39:29 - 9:57 avg. pace - general aerobic
Sunday: 12 miles 1:55: 56 - 9:38 avg. pace - easy A.M. plenty of bounce in my step / 8 miles @ 4.0 - 4.6 mph w/10x60 sec. @ 9.3 mph 5:00 recovery jog / XT reverse leg press 3x [15x150 lbs w/60 sec. @ 9.3 mph during 5:00 recovery] / butt kicks / bounding / skips / fast feet / hip abduction P.M.


Sub-20 5k Schedule

Week 6: miles Fundamental Phase [7 wks] WEEK 1
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 2000m @ 12k pace 5:00 recovery + 4x200m max - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 3 mile tempo
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate- scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 7: miles WEEK 2
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 6x200m hill repeats @ mile pace full recovery - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: easy miles - scheduled
Friday: 2x [2000m @ 10K pace, 2-minute jog, 200m @ 5K], with 4-minute jog between sets - scheduled
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run / 6x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled

Week 8: miles WEEK 3
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 3000m @ 10k pace 5:00 recovery + 4x200m max - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: easy miles - scheduled
Friday: 7x200m hill repeats @ mile pace full recovery - scheduled
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate- scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 9: miles WEEK 4
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 8x200m hill repeats @ mile pace full recovery - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 4 mile tempo - scheduled
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 10: miles WEEK 5
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 2x [2000m @ 5K sec./mile, 2-minute jog, 300m @ 5K-25 sec./mile], with 4-minute jog between sets - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 8 miles alternating 1000m at HM-10 sec./mile with 600m at HM +30 sec./mile - scheduled
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 11: miles WEEK 6
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 8x1000m 9k pace w/60-90 sec. recovery - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 8 miles alternating 1000m at HM-10 sec./mile with 600m at HM +20 sec./mile - scheduled
Saturday: 5k race - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 12: miles WEEK 7
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 3x [1600m @ 5K-5 sec./mile, 2-minute jog, 300m @ 5K-25 sec./mile], with 4-minute jog between sets - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: short hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 5 mile tempo or 4x2000m @ 12k w/3:30 recovery- scheduled
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 13: miles ~ Sharpening Phase / Specific Endurance Phase [4 wks] WEEK 8
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 8x1000m 8k pace w/60 sec. recovery - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 3x [1200m @ 5K-10 sec./mile, 2-minute jog, 400m @ 5K-30 sec./mile], with 4-minute jog between sets - scheduled
Saturday: 8 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 14: miles WEEK 9
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 3x [4x400m @ 3k pace] w/30 sec. recovery between reps 4:00 between sets - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 8 miles alternating 1000m at HM-10 sec./mile with 600m at HM +20 sec./mile or 3x3000m @ 10k w/3:00 recovery - scheduled
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

Week 15: miles WEEK 10
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 3x [4x400m @ 3k pace] w/30 sec. recovery between reps 4:00 between sets - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 3x [800m @ 5K-20 sec./mile, 2-minute jog, 400m @ 5K-35 sec./mile] with 4-minute jog between sets - scheduled
Saturday: 8 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12 mile long run - scheduled

Week 16: miles WEEK 11
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 5x1000m 5k race pace 60 sec. recovery
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Saturday: 8 miles easy / moderate or fartlek - scheduled
Sunday: 10-12 mile med-long run - scheduled

Week 17: miles ~ Speed Taper WEEK 12
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 2200m @ 9.0 mph & last 200m @ 10.3 mph. Passive recovery / jog + 2x200m @ 10.5 mph - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery + strides - scheduled
Thursday: 2x2:00 @ 6:26 pace + 2xstrides - scheduled
Friday: 5x400m 1:40 - 1:48 w/400m recovery - scheduled
Saturday: Cougar 5k - scheduled
Last edited by MothAudio on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by dkggpeters » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:19 pm

Why so many miles for a 5k at your age?  I would lessen the miles and speed the pace up a bit and do specific 5k pace intervals or faster.

MothAudio

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by MothAudio » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:52 pm

[quote="dkggpeters"]
Why so many miles for a 5k at your age?  I would lessen the miles and speed the pace up a bit and do specific 5k pace intervals or faster. [/quote]

That's precisely what I've done...

2009 - 3300 miles
2010 - 3700 miles
2011 - 3550 miles
2012 - 2830 miles

2013 - 3000 miles - projected

As mentioned I'm accustomed to high mileage. I've gradually reduced mileage, focusing more on quality resulting in at least one [1] new Master PB time each year from 5k to the marathon. 70 mpw is very comfortable for me . The lower mileage last year was due to a slump in the Spring causing me to cut back mileage / intensity or else I would have run approx. 3000 miles.

I haven't indicated mileage points for the schedule but it would be less than I'm running now [68-72 mpw]. I suspect it would be in the 60-65 mpw range. I don't run to hit specific mileage points anymore, the miles just stack up naturally in the scope of my training. My focus is on nailing by quality workouts and maintaining enough recovery to do so.

I should also add that while I've been running competitive since 1973 I never ran high mileage in my prime, unlike many in my peer group. I recorded my 1st 2000 mile year in 2005, perhaps that explains why I'm able to maintain volume and quality w/o it affecting my race performance. The question becomes should I reduce volume even more? Perhaps. Last year I reduced my weekly quality workouts from three to two and have been focusing more on recovery by shortening my easy - recovery days [and slowing the pace of my recovery runs] while pushing my quality days in both volume and intensity.

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by dkggpeters » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:26 pm

3 x 2000m @ 5k -10 sec/mile is way to aggressive in my opinion.  For a 5k your reps should be more like 800m or 1200m at no faster then 5k pace.  You can do short reps faster but trying to do a longer rep at 5k pace is asking to much.

What is your current 5k time?

I don't know much about 5k training and it would be interesting to get Tinman's take on what should be done.


Week 10: xx miles WEEK 5
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 3x [2000m @ 5K-10 sec./mile, 2-minute jog, 300m @ 5K-25 sec./mile], with 4-minute jog between sets - scheduled
Wednesday: 3-5 mile recovery - scheduled
Thursday: 8x10 sec. hill sprints - scheduled
Friday: 8 miles alternating 1,000m at HM-10 seconds/mile with 600m at HM +30 seconds/mile - scheduled
Saturday: 8-10 miles easy / moderate - scheduled
Sunday: 12-14 mile long run - scheduled

MothAudio

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by MothAudio » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:43 pm

I appreciate the feedback!

I had success in the half last year by extending the length and overall volume of my intervals while increasing the pace to or slightly faster than race pace and then gradually shorteninig the rest intervals during my sharpening phase.

Couple of years ago I was doing mostly 1000m repeats [for the 5k and half] and last year I bumped that up to 2000m, 3000m and 5k [for the half]. Some of my key workouts were 2x3000m @ HM with 600m recovery at slightly faster than marathon pace or 2x4 miles @ HM pace with 3:00 recovery. I peaked with 3x5k @ HM pace w/3:00 recovery and 3x3000m @ 5 sec./mile faster than HM pace w/600m recovery @ slightly fatser than marathon pace. I wanted to carry this general approach, of increasing the amount of time spent at race pace [or faster] to improve my speed tolorance. over to my 5k schedule. Because I've adapted to the longer intervals I believe the length won't be an issue. If I need to trim the pace back I'll determine that on the fly and make adjustments down stream.

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by Clell » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:27 pm

Interesting thread as I too plan to break under 20:00 this spring in the 5k.  I am 49 years young! I started running at age 44.  I look forward to the constructive comments from the knowledgeable readers on this site. And of course the comments from Tinman.

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by dkggpeters » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:26 am

I am 49 and estimate my 5k time to be high 17's to very low 18 right now.  I am marathon training so this is based of of 3 x 1 miles repeats I did with 2 min rest a in 5:49 a couple of weeks ago.  I race shorter distances also much faster then I can do in training.  I have no problem handling volume as I am doing 80 to 85 miles a week right now at 7:30 avg pace.

I mentioned the above because looking at your schedule and the amount of quality using intervals of 5k or faster, I would burn out in a little over a month and your schedule is 17 weeks.  The body responds quickly to VO2 max intervals and then improvements are very minimal or in my case go the other direction.  I think that you have way to much fast running for a long period of time.

If I was training for a 5k looking out 4 months I would start with slower quality sessions such as tempos and CV intervals and move towards faster intervals of 5k or faster in the last 6 weeks or so.  Even then I would keep the volume of these intervals at about 3 miles total.  I would start with 12 x 400 at 5k pace and progress up to 3 x 1 mile at 5k pace at the end.  I would probably throw in some 200m repeats at approx 1 mile race pace at the end of the workout to keep leg turnover good.  I would also probably run a tempo or 2 and some CV intervals in the last 6 weeks to keep stamina that I worked on earlier in the cycle.

Essentially, I would do the reverse of what I do for Marathon training which is start the training cycle with fast intervals and move to slower intervals or sessions as I get closer to the race.  I start with 5k intervals and progress to MP based miles at the end.  In the interim, I continue to do tempos and CV Intervals (rotate every other week).  This way I get in only 2 quality sessions a week and the balance of the week is easy to moderate running paces.  So for a 5k I would start with slower intervals to build stamina and move to faster intervals which are more race specific at the end.  I am a firm believer on keeping it really simple.

I am still very interested on how Tinman would approach 5k training.

Dave

MothAudio

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by MothAudio » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:26 pm

[quote="dkggpeters"]

I mentioned the above because looking at your schedule and the amount of quality using intervals of 5k or faster, I would burn out in a little over a month and your schedule is 17 weeks.  The body responds quickly to VO2 max intervals and then improvements are very minimal or in my case go the other direction.  I think that you have way to much fast running for a long period of time.

If I was training for a 5k looking out 4 months I would start with slower quality sessions such as tempos and CV intervals and move towards faster intervals of 5k or faster in the last 6 weeks or so.  Even then I would keep the volume of these intervals at about 3 miles total.  I would start with 12 x 400 at 5k pace and progress up to 3 x 1 mile at 5k pace at the end.  I would probably throw in some 200m repeats at approx 1 mile race pace at the end of the workout to keep leg turnover good.  I would also probably run a tempo or 2 and some CV intervals in the last 6 weeks to keep stamina that I worked on earlier in the cycle.

Essentially, I would do the reverse of what I do for Marathon training which is start the training cycle with fast intervals and move to slower intervals or sessions as I get closer to the race.  I start with 5k intervals and progress to MP based miles at the end.  In the interim, I continue to do tempos and CV Intervals (rotate every other week).  This way I get in only 2 quality sessions a week and the balance of the week is easy to moderate running paces.  So for a 5k I would start with slower intervals to build stamina and move to faster intervals which are more race specific at the end.  I am a firm believer on keeping it really simple.

I am still very interested on how Tinman would approach 5k training.

Dave
[/quote]

Thanks Dave. Actually the schedule is 11 weeks w/one week taper [you're looking at the week of the year, not weeks of training]. I was torn between focusing more on 10k pace work during the Fundamental phase, so I may sub in more of that for the 5k paced workouts. Right now I have one of my lactate-clearing workouts I use for half marathon in the Sharpening phase [week 9]. 

MothAudio

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by MothAudio » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:59 pm

[quote="dkggpeters"]
What is your current 5k time?[/quote]

I mentioned that in my OP. 21:11 [11/12].

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by Jim » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:07 pm

Moth,
I am sure I will not be the only guy on here who will say that you are training waaaay too hard.  Rest is of equal or greater importance to the faster running workouts.  I'm with you on the mileage volume, if you can run 70mpw then keep doing it.  My two cents is you can slow down your easy days, and on your hard days do half as much hard running.  Under Tinman my volume of fast running is half of what it used to be and I am making steady fitness improvements and race improvements from 800m to HM.  You can train too hard and not make any improvements in performance, been there and done that.

You and I are in the same boat looking at cracking 20min but I am a youngish 47.  I'm running 50-55mpw with a long progression run (20-22km), tempo once a week (either 25min or so @ HM~10km pace, or 1km reps @ CV pace) and a faster day prescribed by the Coach.  Today's fast workout was 5 x 2min (500m in 1:58-2:00) @ 4km race pace with 60sec rest + 5 x 150m @ 800m pace with 60sec rest.  It was not a killer workout but it was not easy either.  The Tinman approach is to make your hard days a little easier, and your easier days a little easier.  Let the body adapt to the training stimulus, not continue to be broken down by it. Train and adapt, train and adapt and not get injured.  Better to be slightly undertrained than even a little overtrained. 

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by dkggpeters » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:05 pm

Better to be slightly undertrained than even a little overtrained.
Read the above, and then read it again, and then read it again.  I cannot stress enough how true the above statement is.  What good is training super hard if you cannot toe the line?

I used to think that I would have to do a lot of quality as well.  I now do a lot less quality and only 2 days a week.  I am seeing improvements week after week and month after month.  I used to see results quickly from doing a lot of quality and either one of two things happened.  1.) I would burn out and be over-trained and as a result lose interest in running for a while  2.) Get injured and be forced to take long periods of time off.

You are looking at doing more quality then we did for High School Cross Country and we were a top ranked team in Southern Calif.  Even being young we had a hard time recovering from the workouts.

I think that you would be surprised how much better you will do with less quality volume and keeping the paces under control on these sessions as well.  I have a lot of CV workouts where I want to do more as I am not wiped out but trust the process and stop at the required reps.  What I am seeing is consistent improvement and I am still hungry and not burnt out.

Dave

MothAudio

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by MothAudio » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:53 pm

Thanks guys. I hear you but I'd like to clarify a couple of assumptions. Since coming back from a torn post-tib tendon in 1996 I've progressively run higher mileage and faster race times [since '96]. After running 5 hour marathons in 1999 / 2000 [of course, I was running 3:12-3:15's prior to my injury] my current Master PB is 3:28:13 [2009]. Every year I've set at least one new Master PB, so I'm still progressing, not burned out, which is uncommon for someone that's been racing since 1973. I'm two minutes faster now for the half than I was 7 years ago. I should be slowing down at 55, not speeding up.

Mt 5k schedule only has me doing two [2] quality sessions per week, where I used to do 3-4 in past years. My recovery days are stupid slow; 3-5 miles @ 4.0 - 5.0 mph on the TM or average between 9:15-9:45 paace outdoors. My easy pace can [naturally] swing quite a bit but I'm careful to limit MP [or faster] miles to my one moderate day and not creep into my bread-n-butter miles. I would say I value recovery more than I ever did in my prime or even several years ago. What all of you are saying is it needs to swing further that direction.

My specific endurance workouts are intense but that's what I've adapted to over the past 2 years. Since adopting a high mileage approach 4 years ago my recovery rate is very fast. Here's two weeks from the middle of my 12 week half marathon training last Fall [where I re-set my Master PB: 1:36:33 - 7:21 pace]. I highlighted the quality days. I wasn't targeting my projected race pace [7:20] yet in my intervals, saved it for the last 4 weeks, but as you can see I'm doing quite a bit of overall quality.


Week 35: 85 miles
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 6 miles 53:42 - 8:56 avg. pace - easy A.M. / 7 miles 1:02:25 - 8:55 avg. pace - easy + 3xshort hill sprints P.M. Butt was dragging and after 2000m @ steady state pace [7:33] aborted my scheduled interval workout..
Wednesday: 9 miles 1:14:15 - 8:14 avg. pace - 3x2000m @ 7:30 pace w3x600m recovery @ 7:57 pace. 4.65 continuous miles @ 7:35 pace. 5 sec./mile slower than projected for my 14k race pace [2000m portion] * but I'll take it. A.M. / 8 miles 1:16:30 - 9:33 avg. pace - hilly trail + form drills P.M.
Thursday: 6 miles 49:37 - 8:15 avg. pace - moderate last 4 miles sub-8
Friday: 10 miles 1:27:45 - 8:32 avg. pace - easy
Saturday: 10 miles 1:28:42 - 8:52 avg. pace - easy A.M. / ‎4 miles @ 4.4 mph recovery / XT [reverse leg press / form drills] P.M.
Sunday: 15 miles 2:17:50 - 9:11 avg. pace - after 7 mile warm up 4x400m @ 6:42 pace w/400m jog - 3:00 jog - 20:00 @ 7:56 pace - 3:00 jog - 4x200m hill sprints @ 6:22 pace w/200 jog - last mile fast mile A.M. / 10 miles 1:44:10 -10:25 avg. pace - recovery on hilly trail P.M.

* 14k was my one tune up race where I projected 7:25 pace and three weeks later ended up averagng 7:10 in the race. 

Week 36: 81 miles
Monday: SRD
Tuesday: 10 miles 1:29:35 - 8:57 avg. pace - 2x20:00 @ 7:51 pace w/ 2:00 jog recovery + strides & form drills. That's twice I've bombed my tempo runs in the early morning! I can't believe that I was running this slow. In the last mile I got down to my goal pace but man, what a kick in the shorts. Shakes head. Things have to get better from here! *
Wednesday: 6 miles 49:12 - 8:12 avg. pace - rhythm run: 5 miles @ 8:01 pace [last mile 7:25] + 6xstrides A.M. / 3 miles 3x200m @ 9.0 - 10.0 mph / XT / A.M. / 8 miles 1:20:07 - 10:01 avg. pace - easy w/hill sprints on trail P.M.
Thursday: 10 miles 1:24:19 - 8:26 avg. pace - rhythm run last 5 miles - 7:56 pace
Friday: 4 miles 36:53 - 9:13 avg. pace - recovery A.M. / 6 miles 57:06 - 9:31 avg. pace - easy 4x200m hill sprints @ 5:39 pace w/5:00 recovery P.M.
Saturday: 14 miles 1:59:42 - 8:33 avg. pace - after 7 mile warm up 20:00 @ HM - 10k pace avg. 7:33 pace and for good measure ran my last mile @ 7:37. Switched my easy run for Sunday's specific endurance workout. Ok, off to a family birthday party.
Sunday: 10 miles 1:24:55 - 8:29 avg. pace - last 10:00 @ 7:25 pace A.M. / 10 miles 1:33:24 - 9:20 avg. pace - easy on hilly trail. Feeling Strong. P.M.

* And it fortunately did. From this low point the paces became not only faster but much easier to tolorate.


Of course, the question remains, is what I'm doing optimal training for me? That's one reason I bagged my usual base phase this Winter and subbed in a 9 week "Speed Base" phase instead to improve my raw speed and neuromuscular development since I felt I reached a point of diminishing return on the aerobic front and focused so much attention / made progress with my stamina for the Fall half. 

Regarding the undertrained quote. I agree. I'm very careful about selecting 1-2 max workouts per cycle. I'd rather leave a few bullets in the camber than end up on the sidelines or burned out. I believe progress is when you're doing the same amount of work but at a lesser output. Workouts should not get harder but become easier as you progress through your schedule.

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by Jim » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:59 pm

I find that with a load of easy mileage, a steady belt of tempo running (from CV pace to HM race pace) will make you super fit and all you need is just a touch of speed and BOOM! instant fast times.  Rest and repeat. 

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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by Jim » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:02 pm

"Of course, the question remains, is what I'm doing optimal training for me?"

Quick answer: consult with Tinman. He holds the answer to your question.  The rest of us just have opinions. 

BTW you will find a lot of Tinman coached runners on this Board. None of us are getting any slower, only faster.

MothAudio

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k

Post by MothAudio » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:16 pm

Getting back to my earlier comments about my profile. After the 2010 Columbus Marathon, where I ran 1 minute slower than the year before [due to bronchitis], I decided to focus on the half and continue my pursuit of a sub-20 5k. The main reason I stepped away from the marathon was due to achilles tendonitis. My case is mild and only affects my training when I get into long, extended training runs or races. It bothered me to some degree in my last two marathons and I didn't want to take a chance of it rearing it's ugly head @ mile 20. I knew it wouldn't affect a half marathon, so that's why I switched.

So for 2011-2012 I focused on the half. I'd just come off my highest mileage years ever and most of my workouts were targeting threshold runs; 2x4 / 2x5 miles @ HM pace, 8x1000m lactate clearing tempos, 2-3x5k @ HM. Stuff like that and following my Fall races I'd run 2-3 5k [with some race-specific speedwork] and my best time so far is 20:39 in 11/11.

So, I've tried the approach you outlined and it's still left me short of my ultimate goal. So I've made some unique changes for me, focusing more on plyometrics, hills and speed this Winter while carrying over some of the specific endurance training principals that served me well in my half training to my 5k schedule. 

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