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Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k - tweaked speedwork

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:45 pm
by MothAudio
[quote="Tinman"]


I recommend that you do more stamina conditioning, too, which entails CV and Threshold work. Take a look at your half-marathon time. You ran 1:36:33, which is equal to 21:01 for 5km. Your 5km time is not that fast, so the prep you did right before the half-marathon was better for you than the prep you used for your 5km races.
Good luck!

Tinman
[/quote]
Thanks coach. You probably won't believe me but I will give consideration to your thoughtful suggestions. Even before I posted here I debated front-loading more upper-end threshold workouts around 10k pace, so your suggestion isn't a huge departure from what I was originally considering.



Just want to clarify one more point. The half was my goal race and involved 11 weeks of specific training. Whereas the two 5ks that followed my half marathon the past two years were based on 2-3 weeks. One week recovery from the half, a couple of taper weeks for the 5ks that only leaves three weeks of race-specific training, so it goes without saying I was much better prepared for the half. This is the 1st year I've targeted the 5k as my goal race.

I should also add that in 2011 my half [same race] was only two seconds slower than my half last Fall - 1:36:35 and in those same two 5ks [same race dates] I ran 20:39 and 20:52 - which are stronger performances than either half marathon. Last year was extremely uneven, whereas 2009-11 were some of my best. I personally consider it a huge victory to run a very strong tune up 14k in September and then PR in the half in October. 

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k - tweaked speedwork

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:01 pm
by Jim
2x4 / 2x5 miles @ HM pace, 8x1000m lactate clearing tempos, 2-3x5k @ HM.

Moth,
Whoa those are killer workouts.  OMG, no wonder you are stuck above 20min for 5km, you're too tired to race.  I used to train almost as hard as that (when I was 22 yrs old) and I needed a 4-6 day taper just to run a half decent race.  As I mentioned earlier if you kept your overall volume about the same and did half the volume of fast running in those workouts (1 x 4-5miles @ HM, 4-5 x 1000m lactate clearing) then the following would occur:

1) you'd adapt to the training and get stronger instead of the training always breaking you down
2) you'd feel zippier on your hard days and refreshed on your easy days
3) you'd run PRs in races at the end of a normal training week, regularly, instead of maybe zero, one or two good races a year
4) in two years time you could be substantially faster than you are now at every distance

It is amazing how much faster you can get off of two-three medium-hard workouts a week instead of two killer ass-kicking workouts a week.  Save the ass kicking efforts for key races.

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k - tweaked speedwork

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:57 pm
by dkggpeters
In my opinion he way over complicates his training.  I feel that he is trying to impress us with these training schedules that obviously are not working.

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k - tweaked speedwork

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:19 pm
by MothAudio
[quote="dkggpeters"]
In my opinion he way over complicates his training.  I feel that he is trying to impress us with these training schedules that obviously are not working.
[/quote]

How is it not working? I've been racing since 1973 and after recovering from a torn post-tib tendon in '96 I've set at least one new Master PB every year since resuming consistent training in 2003. My 5k PB is 17:45 set in 1983. In the mid-90's I was running 19 1/2 minutes and in 2011 I ran 20:39. Last year was not my best with a 21:11. Still, I believe my Master times hold up well to the times I was clocking 25+ years ago.

Could I be running even faster times at my age? That's what keeps me motivated and the reason for my OP. But given my longevity in the sport and comparing my Master times in the last two years with my all-time best I don't feel your "not working" comment is accurate.

Re: Master Runner seeks Sub-20 5k - tweaked speedwork

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:30 pm
by dkggpeters
Moth,

A lot of people, Tinman included, gave you recommendations as to your training but you always seem to know best.  If you think a post 20 minute 5k is all that then so be it and have fun with your training and slower times.