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Supplements

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:52 pm
by Barney
I have followed much of Tinman's training for many years.  As I am a masters runner, I am always looking for little "advantages" here and there to help me keep up with my younger competitors.  No PEDS or anything, but rather supplements.  I currently take a multivitamin, but have recently read much about the benefits of beta-alanine for endurance athletes.  I know that it is big in the body building community.  Does anyone have any experience with this supplement or any others?

Thanks! 

Re: Supplements

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:22 pm
by Tinman
I know the beta-alanine has been shown to provide extra short-term power for athletes.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:32 pm
by BoilerTom90
If you're into juicing, you could try beet juice, or other vegetables high in nitrites. Here's a short little video:

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/so-shou ... ce-or-not/

Re: Supplements

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:54 pm
by dkggpeters
BoilerTom,  Do you use beet juice and if so, did yo see any positive results?

From a discussion we had on another thread the recommendation came up to use coconut oil before long runs.  I started using it and do so every morning.  It is hard to say how much of a difference it made but I never had any bad long runs and a lot of those had MP miles in them.

Barney,  use a good recovery drink after hard efforts.  I have noticed that it has helped my recovery tremendously.  I can do a 20 with 12 @ MP and feel good the next day and not drag.  I use Endurox R4.  Chocolate milk works well.  I only use Endurox as I do a lot of my long runs on the towpath or in the Cuyahoga National Park and since I have to drive there I can keep the drink in the truck and not worry about spoilage.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:15 pm
by BoilerTom90
[quote="dkggpeters"]
BoilerTom,  Do you use beet juice and if so, did yo see any positive results?

From a discussion we had on another thread the recommendation came up to use coconut oil before long runs.  I started using it and do so every morning.  It is hard to say how much of a difference it made but I never had any bad long runs and a lot of those had MP miles in them.

Barney,  use a good recovery drink after hard efforts.  I have noticed that it has helped my recovery tremendously.  I can do a 20 with 12 @ MP and feel good the next day and not drag.  I use Endurox R4.  Chocolate milk works well.  I only use Endurox as I do a lot of my long runs on the towpath or in the Cuyahoga National Park and since I have to drive there I can keep the drink in the truck and not worry about spoilage.
[/quote]

dk,

It's hard to say because I make some form of juice nearly every day, but I don't use beet juice every day.  Nearly daily we use spinach, and sometimes kale, which are both high in nitrates.  I just thought I'd pass along a piece of info that Tinman once shared with me, while referencing one of many studies done on "beet juice and athletic performance."  No matter how you look at it, eating healthy is vital.

As for evidence, a friend of mine does ultra-crazy endurance events. He's currently in Italy doing 1 IM a day for 30 days in a row.  He claims beet juice is one of his "secrets".  All along, I thought his secret was just being part mad man.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:23 pm
by dkggpeters
BoilerTom,

I will have to try it and I agree that having a healthy diet is a positive regardless.  I look at it as it may not help with performance but it may help with recovery which is just as important.

Once you use something it is hard to stop as well for fear of things falling apart.  I take Triple Flex (Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM) for joint health and some studies say it is a waste of money.  All I know is that I don't have any joint issues and for being 50 this month and running as much as I do is a good thing.  I can't say for sure that is the reason why I don't have joint problems but I am not going to stop taking it and find out the hard way either.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:31 pm
by Barney
DK, I had read in another thread that Tinman suggested olive oil before a long run.  My wife just purchased a small tub of coconut oil, but it is not in liquid form.  How is this taken and how much?  What is the benefit of either oil?

Thanks again for the responses.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:39 am
by Spider Man
I would be extremely wary of the various options suggested ... in particular, any branded product that you have to pay $$$ for should be avoided ... there is strong evidence that many branded supplements have small  traces of prohibited PEDs ... why take the risk?!

Scientific "evidence" for the benefits of this product or that is often very dubious as the testing has been financed by the company producing the goods .... & lab test protocols can be designed to lead to certain outcomes ... they cannot replicate real life experiences.

The only "trick" I employed was a strong cup of coffee about an hour before a race ... otherwise, just stick to a good, healthy diet.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:10 am
by dkggpeters
Barney,  The coconut oil that I use is hard so and not in liquid form.  I put it in my coffee and it disolves.

See this thread on the discussion on coconut oil but you are supposed to burn more fat early in the race or run thereby sparing glycogen:

http://www.therunzone.com/http://www.therunzone.com//viewtopic.php?t=4

Tinman recommended Olive Oil.  My understanding is that any healthy fat will do.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:13 am
by dkggpeters
Spider Man,  how would beet juice, olive oil, or coconut oil have PED's in them?  I do agree that if you take supplements from supplement companies then you need to be careful.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:00 pm
by Clell
I think he was referring to products marketed to athletes that claim to boost performance. If i was an elite athlete I would avoid them at all cost.
As for the beet juice claim, I've read 2-3 different articles that pointed to studies where it was shown to help performance. 

Coconut oil is a medium chain fat I think, so it's slightly different than most others.  I am going to try the tablespoon a couple hours or so before my long runs this fall. If it works ok with my digestive system, I will use it for my marathon. Maybe even on a Half Marathon.

I think coconut oil has a melting point of about 76 degrees F.  I love it. We cook with it all the time. It has a higher smoke temp than most oils.

I have a question about creatine.  Does it help muscles to retain water during exercise? Would that be a good thing to take the day before, or 2-3 hours before a long run?

Re: Supplements

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:22 am
by Spider Man
Thanks Clell ... I was referring to such products. ... As for "natural" enhancers, as I said, I did use strong coffee as a pre-race boost. It's very much up to the individual, but any benefits are likely to be very marginal ... there's no substitute to good, solid, sensible training.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:01 pm
by Ron
Since my return to the running community following my compartmental knee replacement I have found the most success with the simplest supplements, Apple Cider Vinegar and honey twice a day. It is said to help remove calcium deposits in the joints and transport them to your bones. Can't really find any negatives about it other than the taste :o. It's been more than a year since my surgery and I have slowly built my way back to 65 plus miles a week so far.

I don't have a lot of faith in the over the counter supplements since they are not regulated by the FDA. You don't really know what your putting in your body.

Re: Supplements

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:02 pm
by BoilerTom90
[quote="Ron"]
Since my return to the running community following my compartmental knee replacement I have found the most success with the simplest supplements, Apple Cider Vinegar and honey twice a day. It is said to help remove calcium deposits in the joints and transport them to your bones. Can't really find any negatives about it other than the taste :o. It's been more than a year since my surgery and I have slowly built my way back to 65 plus miles a week so far.

I don't have a lot of faith in the over the counter supplements since they are not regulated by the FDA. You don't really know what your putting in your body.
[/quote]

Apple Cider Vinegar and Honey? How much of each?

Re: Supplements

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:55 pm
by Ron
I use a regular tablespoon and put about a teaspoon of ACV in it and fill the rest of the tablespoon with natural honey. It tastes terrible so the honey on the spoon really helps.
I you just search "Apple Cider Vinegar Joint Health" using any search engine you'll get tons of results. Most recommend mixing it in warm water but that didn't work for me. I'd rather get it over with quickly.

Here's the number 1 search result in Google: http://www.naturalnews.com/026715_apple ... negar.html